Emily has been kicked out of Big Brother for using a racist word

[ConnieDescending]

Apparently she called Charley the N word in a 'joking manner' whilst they were dancing and was chucked out at 3 in the morning.

Stupid, silly naive girl

How odd, Rosa, I've just been editing a book about the captain of a Liverpool-based slaveship. He was captured off the Barbary coast and sold into slavery, before being bought back by the British government. His captors seemed to have him doing the odd bit of gardening - hardly comparable to the fate of Africans sold into slavery, as you say.

Isn't it interesting how much oppression and violation is done in the name of religion

Totally agree Kerrymum. Racism is racism. End of. I sincerely hope that if it had been a black person using this term to another black person, they would have been kicked out too.

I asked my mum if she knew anything about the word niger. She said years ago, black africains were used in slavery and they would call them nigers because they were from Nigerea. She said thats where the word came from because niger is a short term for Nigerea. There is alot more to the story but that's the basis of the story and niger represents black slavery.

Interesting article I just read on the topic by Kevin Cato. There are different theories about the origin of the word - some say it comes from the Spanish word for black "Negro". I don't buy this argument that blacks calling eachother the word somehow makes it less bad if White people use the word. The fact is that it still causes major offence and distress to the overwhelming majority of black people and should not be used.

I'm not arguing that the word should be used, I'm not saying that at all. If it causes serious offence (and it obviously does) then it is simply a matter of courtesy not to use it. I just think that Emily made a genuine mistake that is understandable in the context of her upbringing and the kinds of people she hangs around with. I can believe that she genuinely didn't realise that it is a shocking thing for a white person to say to a black person.

I do also think that it is intellectually dishonest to say that black people can say it, but white people can't. A word is either obscene, or it is not. This argument that 'it is not obscene when Kanye West uses it 50 times in 'Gold Digger', but it is obscene when a white girl uses it on BB' simply does not hold water.

..Should be used to educate the ignorant...

....makegood use of a bad situation...

.....should send someone in to the house to do a live history lesson.....

Something good may come of it.....?

I think the real irony is that she used the phrase 'ya pushin it out?' and the word 'nigga' to sound black and cool, and to be more like Charley, which in a way is the very opposite of racism. Emily is clearly an idiot (and a Tory!) and made a ridiculous misjudgment, but IMO (and from what I heard/saw) it wasn't a term of abuse, but a word she hears everyday on her ipod. I'd never use the word or ape those kind of phrases, partly because at my age I grew up only knowing the word as a term of abuse used in the most horrible way, but also because I think it is infantile for a while englishwoman to want to pretend to be a black american person to be cool, and ridiculous to the point of being certifiable to do so at the age of 43.

I have to say that really, I don't much care what happens to people on BB! The only person I ever really felt sorry for was Shabaz, who was clearly a person with real difficulties who was bullied mercilessly and nobody cared.

Haven't read this thread, but just wondering, as it's got four hundred and odd messages, is it kicking off?

We believe you, Aloha!

I agree - I think the intent is everything here. She plainly did not mean it abusively. (Though, as I said before, she made things much worse by failing to apologise, whining, and trying to suppress the debate afterwards.)

I think the demarcation between using it as a deliberate term of abuse, and using it as a word roughly equivalent to 'homeboy', is much more sustainable than the 'OK if black/not OK if white' demarcation.

In general, I'd prefer that people simply did not use it at all. But the genie is well and truly out of the bottle, I think.

MummyPenguin - we are playing very nicely, thank you!

Oh come on. that's no fun, is it?

I tell you what - you kick it off, and we'll all pile in.

[scarpers]

Wasn't aimed at anyone in particular policywonk - a general observation Intellectually dishonest you say ...........well yes it is. You are absolutely right. However this is a very complex issue. That article and others on the topic re. use of the word by black people show what a minefield it is. I don't think trying to simplify it helps because it doesn't get into the psyche of the people who are at the receiving end of such words. Can't explain what I mean any clearer as I have dizzy pg hormones impairing my already depleted brain cells.

But yeah, I agree black people should not use the word either.

the n word is never cool

and an opposite view from Barbara Allen

I read that Joseph Harker article when it was published, and thought it was pretty weak and badly argued, and glossed over most of the difficult issues. (White music executives are to blame for the use of the word in hip-hop? Don't think so.)

Barbara Ellen usually talks sense, I think.

I'm a big fan of Gary Younge . He's prepared to go into the arguments a bit more, I think.

Ok, I've just watched the Youtube video and, having seen the incident in context, I've changed my mind. Charley was really, genuinely shocked, and it was shocking. Emily is a complete idiot and just awful. She just sat there grinning at two black women as if she had nothing nothing wrong, even as they tried to tell her that they were upset, shocked and offended.

OMG policywonk I just read the article you linked and was to read what Germaine Greer said.

Yes, very shocking from someone like her (intelligent, well-travelled, can hardly use the 'ignoramus' excuse). Can just imagine her blustering about it when she realised what she'd done.

I naively expected better from a person who campaigns for rights for marginalised groups in society (eg women)

The Joseph Harker article does have it's faults I agree but it shouldn't be dismissed: it does have two very pertinent points "Yes, of course it's true that some black people, especially youngsters influenced by gangsta-rap music, use this terminology. But in what other walk of life would we take our moral lead from a small number of uneducated street thugs?"

{BTW, where does it say that "White music executives are to blame for the use of the word in hip-hop?"

and

"...the Shetty bullying, which every non-white person in the country could see was loaded with racism from the start."

It isn't for white people to rule what is and is not racist. If that was the standard, the civil rights movement would never have happened. Victims of racism can tell that on their own, without the need for a white persons perspective.

That comment about Shetty was another of,what I thought were Harkers, pertinent points, not a quote from your post PW.

Well, I'm not sure that so many R&B/hip-hop stars/producers can all be dismissed as street thugs, Kanye West again being a prime example (sorry to harp on about him, but 'Gold Digger' is on my iPod, and I find myself in the bizarre position of having paid money for this tune, but feeling that I ought not to sing along to it. Maybe I should just delete it...)

He says of hip-hop, 'the main people promoting it have been conscience-free white music executives'.

Completely agree re. the Shilpa Shetty business. C4 handled it very badly. At least three or four of the CBB contestants were deeply racist, and should have been chucked off without ceremony. It's even worse that in the case of Danielle Lloyd, it seems to have actually kick-started her stupid little tits-out career.

I do agree that, when deciding what is or is not racist, it makes perfect sense to give more weight to the feelings of the person who is being attacked. But you can't ban everyone else from having an opinion too.