Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 2 discussion thread

[OlennasWimple]

SPOILERS ALERT

THIS THREAD IS FOR DISCUSSION OF SEASON 7, EPISODE 2 "STORMBORN"

Come and discuss the second episode in the penultimate series, airing July 24th at 2am UK time! Don't read the thread if you want to avoid finding out what happens in Season 7 but also Seasons 1-6

HBO description of the episode: "Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) receives an unexpected visitor. Jon (Kit Harington) faces a revolt. Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) plans the conquest of Westeros."

Please avoid discussing leaks and production details for Seasons 7 and 8 but speculate away on what we have learnt from the new episode and what it might mean for the rest of the Season and the ultimate winner(s) of the Game of Thrones

I've started reading the books finally and I was surprised to come across so much relevant information to do with the current episode in the first few chapters of the first book. I thought I'd be bored reading them as they went back too far! Visery's advisors that Dany referenced, Varys plotting to kill her, nymeria, Dragonstone, so so much more.

Had to share this

Yamayo, that's great!

I like this one, I hope it's not too much of a spoiler.

Eeeeeeeewwwww

Shame Ramsay is no longer with us, he could have come in handy.

I did think that peeling Jorah was a job for House Bolton - shame there's no-one left!

Pmsl at this one...

That's the best tat iv ever seen. Sam is wasted in the citadel.

Delurking as I've doing a Now TV rewatch and was feeling a bit pissed off with S4E7: there's a scene with Melisandre in the bath without her necklace having a nice natter with Selyse Baratheon.
I was going to let that lie, telling myself even script writers can't remember it all etc etc. But I've just seen S5E5 and need to rant because Stannis tells Sam: I know what it [obsidian/ dragonglass] is. We have it on Dragonstone. This crucial information's meant to have just dropped out of Sam's head between then and S7? And he needed to sneak about in the Citadel to find the information again, like it was a huge revelation? AIBU to think 'bloody lazy frigging writers'?

No, Babia, it's not just you. As I said upthread, Davos served Stannis for years on Dragonstone and conveniently didn't notice the mountain of dragonglass.

You can't blame a fictional character - the inconsistencies in plot and characterisation are down to crap writing.

At least we know what Sam's first link at the Citadel is going to be - the plastic link of pointless exposition.

I know Officer - I got so twitchy when I saw it. Here's hoping all the S7/S8 action avoids any more of these errors - it'd ruin the whole series otherwise.

Arya I had a think about Davos not mentioning it. I think Stannis would know more about Dragonstone as he was high born/educated and he'd lived there since Robert took the throne. Davos, being low born and unable to read before knowing Shireen, wouldn't have studied, known or cared about Dragonstone's geology.

I am aware that posting this theory may make me a fanwanker.

I suppose I'm going at it from a book perspective. I now there's loads of stuff about Dragonglass on Dragonstone in A Clash of Kings, but I can't remember if it's written from Davos' POV or Master Cressen's....

Off to go and look...

I've only read the first book so far. Really hope the books aren't ruined with that - it'd be so disappointing.
I wonder whether Sam's plastic link of pointless exposition would have an engraving of an eyeroll?

I know what you mean about the pace Officer. When you think how long Arya went trekking about with the Hound and Bran's bloody odyssey north S7 is just crazy in comparison!

Dany took six seasons to get onto a damn boat and set off to Westeros, now she has 11 episodes maximum to secure the Iron Throne....

I've seen the Melisandre necklace thing explained in lots of ways (glamouring, Selys seeing what she wanted to see, the bath having some potion in it etc etc) but I think the most likely is an oversight by the writers

To be fair, the books have their fair share of inconsistencies too. GRRM puts Sansa 'misremembering' Lion's Tooth/Lion's Paw down to being an unreliable narrator, but it's funny that BOTH Sansa and Arya misremember the name of the sword. I'm not sure if it's as much unreliable narrator as unreliable author!

I get that the story needs to be shortened and unnecessary storylines need to be cut, but there has been loads of time wasted on pointless scenes where other, really important, bits have been cut. All that stuff about cousin Orson (?) and the beetles and eunuch-sex and more Tyrion brothel jokes...

Anyway, I'm resigned to the fact that D&D's fan fiction is the only ending to the series we'll see. I'll keep watching but unfortunately I'll probably keep ranting.

I suppose it's better for my blood pressure than ranting about politics.

yeah he does seem to take a lot of grief eh, poor bloke!

Leave Bran and his odyssey alone
'Tis all that matters in the end, I'm telling you.

Why are they wrapping the series up so quickly, is there just not enough action in the outline of what is planned?

Why are they wrapping the series up so quickly, is there just not enough action in the outline of what is planned?

I think that when B&W embarked on the project they never banked on:

1. The TV series being commissioned for the full story
2. Being in a position where they were ahead of the book material

Part of the problem is that there is simply too mucn material to fit into even a 10 season series (what GRRM recommended). GRRM has let the scope of the story get wider and wider with more and more storylines competing for attention. He says he is a gardener not an architect, but he has allowed his garden to get infested in Meereenese knotweed, and he's found himself unable to write his way out of it. Whilst they all 'know' the fate of the key characters, it is clear they have very little idea how to get everyone in the right place at the right time in a realistic and believable way. Short-cuts have to be taken, but they can end up looking really clunky.

Just some of the problems the showrunners have got themselves into:

• They have cut entire storylines that will make up a significant portion of the next two books. Without (f)Aegon there can be no second Dance of the Dragons and the Dorne plot becomes a bit pointless.

• Instead of just cutting storylines, they have created their own inventions which have put certain characters into really weird places. Jaime should not still be on team Cersei, the Hound would never join with the Brotherhood without Banners, Asha/Yara should be in the north etc. I don't think the writers really know what to do with those characters now, and they're simply not good enough writers to be able to write convincing storylines for them. Jaime's 'redemption' stalled completely in season 5 when he went on his mission to Dorne.

• They have to deal with actors. Some of them are noticeably aging compared to their book counterparts (the series has spanned less than 3 years so far). It's really problematic when the storyline of key 'child' characters such as Sansa just can't follow the same path. One of Sansa's important storylines is her journey through adolescence and sexual awakening - discovering the difference between her childish ideas about love/romance and the realities of a world where sexual attraction is much more complicated an integral part of the power games at play in her world. How can you do that with an actor in their 20s? Then there's all the hassle of trying to keep 'key' actors tied to a restrictive and not well-paying (for many of them) series when they are, naturally, wanting to go and do other projects.

Understandably, B&W want shot of the whole thing and want to work on their Confederate project. From my understanding they have not been asked or have not asked to be involved in the WOIAF spin-off projects.

In previous series' there would have been a lot more dialogue between things happening. They are packing a couple of episodes of action into each one, so I don't understand why the season is short.

My guess is that Benioff and Weiss want to capitalize on GOTs huge success and move on to other projects. They just released an announcement about a new show and said they won't work on any GOT spin-offs. I think they are just bored of it...