The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

Sterilised I thought before working in Jezebels.

Didn't he say they were 'the ones we couldn't assimilate"?

deadringer
"he said, we are only human after all or words to that effect. He meant the men of course, I don't think they see women as human beings at all."
Yes I think you've hit the nail on the head there

wine
I know exactly what you mean. There is a lot of debate about the hijab and how it's oppressive towards women, but I think the opposite extreme - sexualising women and using their semi naked bodies in advertising - is also oppressive. And while people are shocked by FGM I wonder how many are also concerned by women having cosmetic surgery on their labia, breasts etc (which I realise is not the same, but I think it's a very concerning issue).

Re the alcohol he said "One won't hurt".

Cee
"Offred was already being raped on a regular basis as a handmaid and nobody bats an eyelid, but here it was telling when she cried in the hotel room."
I do think it seemed like more of a violation, in a way. He touches her whole body, she has to spend longer with him, and she has to pretend she's enjoying it. It's more "intimate" than the Ceremony which although awful is at least brief and within restricted parameters.

anotheremma

Straight after the shaving scene, there was an advert from Venus for their razors.....

Not good timing.

Interesting episode (and I've read the book)- the men are allowed their vices and to misbehave
But if a woman- a handmaid or a wife got caught having illicit sex they would be brutally punished. Double standards.

Also interesting to note the three official men in the car casually deciding to round up all fertile women and impregnate them...no emotion, no morality, so cold and officious, making decisions that will literally ruin thousands of women's lives with no apparent thought for how it will affect the women.

With a "ceremony" there's a compartmentalisation - its been set up and ratified by other people and so everyone involved can pretend that they are following orders or something higher. There's a set order with a known beginning, middle and end that just need to be gotten through. I don't know too much about FGM but I think there may be some parallels between the "ceremony" and how FGM is done in some societies - as in its done as a ceremony, nobody should be getting any pleasure out of it, and its presented as a way of preserving purity.

The rape at Jezebels though was haunting. The setting of expectation and then the dawning reality of the horror. The fact he treats her like a possession, never once asks her opinion or has any kind of empathy for the situation she is in. She's just had that incredibly emotional reunion with Moira too so I imagine is feeling very raw. By not going through the pre-"ceremony" rituals of bathing, dressing etc she doesn't have quite the psychological armour to numb her feelings and disassociate either.

I'm utterly hooked (and have been lurking on the thread enjoying the debates just as much as each episode).

That's it isn't it. It's sold as a treat for her, when in reality it's rape. The ceremony has no intimacy, it's functional. That Jezebel night was completely different though still rape but somehow worse

There's an awful lot of Biblical/Classical imagery and symbolism used - so I assumed the music box = Pandora's Box e.g. 'weak willed/flawed' woman, disobeys her DH's order, opens the box and releases all the untold ills into the world.

Though hope remains in the very bottom of the box, of course...

He probably does see it as a treat for her, the chance to have a proper shag with him, after all it's not like she has 'real' feelings of her own. . One thing I am curious about, it's a long time since I read the book, are the toxic colonies a reality, or just a threat to keep people in line? We know that Mexico is intact, and Canada, so was there some sort of nuclear attack in Europe or somewhere? Or do we ever find out? Love, love, love this thread!

In the book deadringer it was earthquakes in California setting off nuclear reactors in power plants.

Dead I think it's a perfect example of a man's ability to completely deluded themselves into thinking that the prostitute/hand maiden they're shagging genuinely finds them attractive.

Interesting about California now being 'toxic' ...if I was going to get all symbolic over your ass, I would draw comparisons between Gilead situated on the Eastern Seaboard, first populated by the Puritans... and California symbolic of the loose-living, hedonistic West Coast...

And, from that you could then extrapolate that East = rigid, socialism, puritanical = GOOD.

And, West = freedom of speech/thought, capitalism, carefree = BAD.

A very interesting juxtaposition...just sayin'

I agree. The Ceremony is mandated. Cold, clinical, and June is not required to respond. Everyone is a representative of their caste.
The hotel room is all The Commander, all his planning and his fantasy. Its a personal rape. Its her he wants and she has to pretend its an honour.

When Serena said to the Commander after the first Offred hanged herself 'what did you think would happen?' What was she referring to? The whole Handmaid thing or scrabble (why would that prompt suicide?) or something else? I don't think Serena is a fan of the Ceremony, maybe she warned against it?

Serena has said to Offred things like how she's a strong sensible one, not like some of the others (presumably the one who killed herself) so I'm not sure she gave her the means by which to do it.

The music box. My initial thought was that mirrors arent allowed any more. And the music box has one. Mirror brings to mind vanity, or putting on makeup as earlier in the episode. Maybe to make herself attractive to Nick?

I don't think Serena is a fan of the Ceremony

Why would she be? Having to be there, holding the woman her husband us raping? If it were merely about fertility, then clinical artificial insemination from men proven to be fertile would be more effective, like you do with cattle. But if a handmaid fails to get pregnant while she's on a placement, she'll be the one who failed, not the man. And instead of it being dealt with clinically and efficiently, it's made into an elaborate ceremony to legitimise the more powerful men to have two women to fuck. And if the handmaid happen's to get pregnant, all the more prestige to him.

Because Serena was instrumental in setting up Gilead. She clearly voices her opinion on operational matters to him even now. The ceremony was concocted to get the buy-in from the wives. It obviously didn't work on Serena.

When the commander said to her 'you don't have to be quiet here' in the hotel room... as if he really believed that Offred was attracted to him and wanted sex outside of the ceromony. It's been interesting to see how his ego and acceptance of the ways women are treated has altered and grown since the earlier scenes where he questioned it all more. I found this episode to be the most haunting yet.He had taken her to a place that appeared 'free' where people could act as they wanted away from the eyes of the regime, but In reality it was just another sort of cage. I think there's a Wider comment about the ways in which misogyny makes women act in certain ways, even when we are being told that we are 'free'.

Didn't the Mexican woman say that there were no children in her city? So infertility is a global phenomenon.

Absolutely loving this series, and I look forward to some browsing time on a Monday so that I can follow this thread! The comments and insights are so interesting, thank you all.

One thing is bothering me, when we saw the episode that focused on Luke, it didn't appear to me that he was looking for June and Hannah? I get that there were thousands of missing people and it would be an almost impossible task but at the same time he did seem to be active in some movement and yet when the official called him into the office she had to ask him if June's name meant anything to him. Surely they'd know his wife & child's name? Surely he'd be talking about them all the time and doing everything possible to find them? I was a bit disappointed in him, or how he was portrayed. It just didn't seem like he was really pushing himself to find them, more like he was helping others escape etc. Or have I misread that?

I too found this episode really uncomfortable to watch. The C decking her out like a Christmas tree with sparkly clothes and jewellery just so he could shag her in a brothel. It reminded me of a feature in D Mail recently in which husbands were invited to choose their wives' clothes and hairstyles. Every one of the men thought their 'improvements' had made the women more fanciable/sexy.

macnab I am pretty sure Luke was looking for his family. He was summoned to the US embassy, he doesn't work there, so they would not know him personally. That was my impression anyway.