The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

I get confused every time I read this thread other people's analysis of what's going on is frequently so confusing for me!

Maybe it's because I was abused as a child, so come from a more twisted mindset / background? People saying 'what do the men get out of this regime' well the feeling of power on a knife edge for a start, right? You have absolute power over some, with the frisson of knowing that at any moment you might be pulled up for your own sins.

I watched the last episode wondering if June found herself turned on by the visit to Jezebels, I know I would have been. It's very common for rape victims to then get into BDSM, this has some similarities

Last nights episode was horrifying. The scene in the car! I was shocked that the men were so coldly agreeing such a vile plan. Why is artificial insmination not considered (grim and horrific as that would be with the loss of bodily autonomy etc)?
My blood ran cold when the commander was talking of the clever, educated women who were now reduced to 'jezebels'- punishment for being clever(er) than the men now in charge- pushed into their 'role'. No wonder serena is so bitter and angry (and scared?) she was part of creating this monstrosity, but as a woman is surviving only by the good graces of her vile husband.

For anyone interested in the soundtrack there's a handmaid's tale playlist on Spotify.

I am finding this programme very disturbing. Not least because of some of the things currently happening in the world...

Love this thread. So thought provoking with so many different takes on what's happened. Really opens my mind.

The scene in the car! I was shocked that the men were so coldly agreeing such a vile plan.

Almost as if they were actors following some sort of script - but how could that be........[difficult to turn some acting roles down when there is rent to pay].

I found the razor scene to be the most uncomfortable so far (and there have been plenty of more overtly disturbing things obviously).

Could hardly bear to watch. And Nick is spying on Waterhouse? Wonder how that plays out.

Only 2 episodes to go.

It was the girls faces in Jezebel that's got me. They just looked bored.

The whole series just keeps you off balance all the time. You can never find sure footing before it switches on you.

It is deliberately designed to mirror the whole Gilead experience of course, so that we get to experience a tiny bit of what Offred is going through.

Incredibly powerful series, and I have to say one of the best mumsnet threads I've been on. Brilliant to get so many wise women's perspectives.

Everyone is being watched, so who is watching Nick? Is it the Martha?

Was also struck by the parallels between the Commander describing Offred as 'contraband' and Nick exchanging drugs for alcohol with the Martha downstairs. Highlighting that in Gilead she's just a commodity...

Re Serena's "what did you think would happen?" comment - I took it to be that the commander had gifted the previous Offred whatever she had used to hang herself (not with the intention of it being used as a suicide aide, but to dress up for him).

Another thing I am curious about, the primary motive for the whole Gilead set up was to produce children and ensure the continuation of the human race. So it doesn't make sense to just assume that the men are fertile and 'waste' fertile women if they don't get pregnant. I mean I can understand it with the set up as it is now, mans word is law, but before it all came together, when women like Serena were involved in the decision making, they must have considered male infertility. Surely saving the human race is more important than any individual man's ego, however high up he is. Or am I missing something?

Another thing I am curious about, the primary motive for the whole Gilead set up was to produce children and ensure the continuation of the human race. So it doesn't make sense to just assume that the men are fertile and 'waste' fertile women if they don't get pregnant.

I think that was one of Atwood's reasons for showing us Jezebels; It demonstrates very clearly the hypocrisy and insincerity of the regime. Procreation was ostensibly the primary motivation for the way Gilead society was arranged, but some of the men are breaking the rules and defying that supposed motivation for their own reasons. The women, on the other hand, don't get a choice, whatever their social category.

Interesting interview here with the woman who designed the costumes for the show:

www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/handmaids-tale-hulu-costumes-margaret-atwood

The consideration of male infertility? You only have to look at the trump administration and the power of the climate change deniers to see how science can be overruled by those in power. We already live at a time when women have to bear the consequences of having children (think access to birth control, abortion rights, difficulties in forcing men to support their children by paying maintenance, crippling childcare costs, women bearing the brunt of austerity etc etc etc) that it isn't too much of a leap of thought that the converse is a female problem or fault too.

Love this thread.

I found the biggest reaction in me was, when she snuck out of the hotel room, to find moira. I was telling her to go back to the safety of the rapist she knew! The thought that she would be found by a man and just taken to another room for god knows what, was so intense.

but some of the men are breaking the rules and defying that supposed motivation for their own reasons. The women, on the other hand, don't get a choice, whatever their social category.

Yes, and we heard they break it because they 'are human' (can't recall Fred's exact words) and that really says it all. Women aren't human.

cadnowllyt- no need for the snark!

Obviously I know these men are actors, as does everyone else on this thread, who is commenting.

Yes the women are not human, they're contraband, dolls ( like the doll in the music box), and trapped.

Inigo, that article is fascinating.

Hadn't thought of the handmaids' red clothing being the colour of blood, and then the rivers of blood on the streets as the handmaids walk in groups to the shop.

I liked when June asked the Commander 'who are these people?' And he talks about the men only, and she says 'I meant the women'. Two totally different ways of viewing the same scenario.

He said that some of them were foreign ambassadors being shown a good time, which was interesting in the context of the Mexican ambassador's visit. Clearly she couldn't be sweetened with a trip to Jezebel's which is why they had to put on a show for her.

Anyone else still struggling with the sound a bit?

I know that the handmaids and the marthas and the eyes aren't exactly going to be shouting from the rooftops but I struggle to catch what is said sometimes. And then have to rewind a few times before I can even get half of it. Done deliberately do you think? To keep the viewers off balance a bit?

It is a bit annoying though.

Yes, the sound is a bit off for me too.

Very interesting that the handmaids are made to wear red. Red or scarlet has long been associated with 'danger' or 'scandal'.

It reminds me of Hester Prynne in The Scarlet Letter - branded as an adultress/whore.

So even though the handmaids are raped they are still forced to wear 'whore' colours and they are deemed 'dangerous' by dint of their gender.

In contrast the Marthas wear blue with it's connotations of tranquility and purity (Virgin Mary traditionally wears blue) presumably because they fulfil the 'good' female tasks of domesticity.

The handmaids tale was one of the books I studied for A Level and I remember writing an essay about the imagery and symbolism that MA weaves into the text - the colour red and representation of blood, danger, sex, promiscuity, menstruation etc. I also think there were a lot of tulip references in the book which I haven't seen in the film so far - with the shape of the tulip being the same as an upside down vagina.