The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

That was one of the themes I liked in the book, batteries. That Luke isn't a 'perfect' hero, he has flaws, he (like many I suspect) didn't think it would be that bad until it was too late. Book June was quite angry with his attitude when women lost their jobs and control over their money, he wasn't in favour of it, but was reassuring her that they would be fine together, so really only thinking about their situation). I'm guessing his tipping point came when it became clear that second marriages (after divorce) would be invalid and he would lose his family.

I liked the departure from the book for Luke's story and can see that it will set up new storylines for series 2. I'm still missing June's mum; I'm glad she got a mention from their 'fixer', even in passing.

I kept waiting for it to switch to June but I liked that it gave a bit of their backstory & what they went through because at that point she wasn't just her trying to survive on her own, she was part of a team & I liked seeing her in that context, having each other to keep going. She's spent years thinking she's got to keep going alone & find her daughter by herself. Now she knows the rest of her team is still out there & still fighting for her so she's not alone.

For me, the episode could've been about what Luke had been through, or it could've been June imagining what might've happened, imagining him still fighting for her. Still, it's given her hope & something to fight for, other than the vague possibility of seeing her daughter again. If Luke got out, so could they.

I'm choosing to believe that life for Hannah may not be all that terrible. Sure, she'll be being taught how to be a good little woman, but maybe she's been given to a childless couple to raise who really wanted a child & love her. Until the story tells me otherwise, I shall remain in willful ignorance!

It wouldn't surprise me, or particularly bother me, if Luke had slept with someone else. He thought he'd never see June again. She slept with Nick because she thought Luke was dead. I'm reserving judgement of Luke until I know what he does next - either he'll start trying to find a way to rescue her or he'll be relieved she's alive & just leave it at that. I'm hoping it's the former!

I love this programme but it's sooo bloody dark! I've had to turn the brightness up on my TV because I could hardly see what was happening in the most recent episode. Anyone else or am I just getting old?

He would have known she'd have been kept alive because she was fertile.

She assumed he was dead, he was an escaping male and she heard shots.

Sleeping with someone else when you think but can't be sure your spouse is dead - understandable. Sleeping with someone else when in all probability your spouse is still alive - I wouldn't be happy about that at all.

Also, I'm not saying June isn't a shit. She slept with a married man, she's pretty shitty too. Does that make it ok for him to be a shit too? Dunno, maybe I guess.

It was an interesting episode - part of me was impatient to get back to the present story but I do feel the back story added a lot. I thought it was good to find out what happened to Luke, and that doesn't detract from the fact that it's June's story - he's a part of her life (or was!) and we see what happens to him because she cares, and it affects her story.

Interesting what a PP said about Luke not being a good guy. Is that because he cheated on his first wife, or because he didn't object enough to the women losing their jobs, or both? I think he's imperfect but basically good.

Me too @ClaraLane

I'm skimming all the other posts because I'm about to watch yesterday's at lunch, so I don't quite want spoilers but I do want to be prepared.

Now we're departing from book territory, I'm actually nervous for them all. It's so well written.

Emma I think he's a shit because he saw his wife lose her job and her money and wasn't all that bothered because she had him. So basically someone who is happy for his wife to be seen merely as an extension of him.

And he knew Moira was gay so he knew she was now in big trouble (when money and jobs taken away from women). So did he try and engage in a 'crisis meeting' to discuss how she was going to survive? Did he fuck because she wasn't his problem. That's bloody cold.

I'm suspicious of cheaters I'll admit because I generally feel it shows a level of selfishness that can so easily be extended into other areas of life. As demonstrated here. The cheating isn't the reason I think he's a shit but it was a pretty clear red flag.

I wonder during 1930s Germany how many people left it too late?

Quite a lot - and then, how far do you go? The Franks went from Frankfurt to Amsterdam, and we know from Anne's diary that wasn't far enough.

I've wondered what my own DH would be like if all women lost their jobs/money/property overnight. He might be a bit like Luke. I think a lot of men would be.

How bad do you let things get before you're considering getting in the boot of a car leaving all your belongings and hime behind?

My DH has watched the first 3, and I think it's too much for him. He finds the whole concept really hard to watch - he commented that the ceremony would be as difficult for the man as the handmaid - he did quickly check himself and say, 'oh no, not as bad, but bad for them too' when I gave him the face.

He saw it from the man's perspective. And he's very pro-women's rights. I don't think men can understand what it's like to be a woman at all.

I've just finished the book and recommend it to everyone! But I am enjoying seeing different things that June wouldn't have seen and I hope they expand on the ending. I presume they will if there's a second series.

As interesting as the backstory is I'm finding this last episode harder to watch, I think it's seeing so much of the daughter and knowing what's to come.

So who got in the boat??

I struggled with the darkness too claralane it's a pet hate of mine when tv shows are so dark I cant see anything!

Think everyone but the army lady. Though might be wrong.

I really struggle to watch the flashbacks, this episode to two attempts to watch. I don't think I could watch Hannah's story.

I loved seeing her and matt together, real affection in that regime. I am worried how it will pan out now she knows Luke's alive.

I think we'd all leave it late, we would all hope the nonsense would stop as quickly as it started and if day to day life carries on for you, it will generally take for you to feel threatened to go. You'll protest for others, you'll stand for others but your life goes on.

What has happened to the non- christians in Gilead? Sikhs, Muslims, Native Americans, etc?

I dread to think. First to be strung up we suspect...they're hardly tolerant :(

It is very uncomfortable. I'd like to watch a show where a room full of men had to discuss the show and its implications for - and echoes of - society...

Lol, accidentally pressed post...

Re men discussing it, I'd be interested in how such a chat would change as they got into the issues. Would they try to explain it away, try even to justify little bits of it, if not the whole?

Justifying the bit you're doing is how horrific regimes like the Nazis worked in the German society.

First they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out.....

History teaches us a lot about what can happen. It also shows how people don't speak up - for many reasons.
Their own prejudices?
Not wanting to get involved because of repercussions?
Fear?
Not seeing the issues?

Nazi Germany is the perfect example.

And people who do stand up for things are often dismissed, ignored or told that they are being 'hysterical' by others - normally the ones who are the groups least likely to be affected by any potential change in the way others are treated...

I think the subject matter is really interesting given we appear to be living in a society were you can literally rent a womb, apparently the term is gestational carrier. The Handmaids Tale is so sad to me as this is literally happening in the world right now. Watched a documentary a 2-3 years ago and it was talking about poor South American women being paid money to have babies so that they could be given to their white counterparts in the U.S and other parts of the world.

These were women who were either young and single or had their own children and families but were all extremely poor. They talked about carrying these babies and how devastating it was for them to never see them again and the impact on their lives and families. Some of them went through more than one pregnancy

I first read handmaids as a teen and it seemed like such a horrifying reality but something I couldn't see happening. Now we have baby factories essentially

I think sometimes we skim over the role of women who oppress other women for their own gain. That's why I find the commanders wife so interesting

The nun was interesting as it hints at intolerance of all forms of Christianity that isn't in the approved style (assuming she's RC) so I doubt any other faith will be allowed in Gilead. Whether this started early enough for people of those faith to escape before things got really bad remains to be seen.