The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

3 years (or near enough, allowing for 'training') of Ceremonies...

I found that the hardest episode to watch so far. I think mostly because it reappy showed how easily pre could become post & all the decisions you'd have to take to try & survive. I have a vague plan for what we'd do if we had to leave our home but if it could only ever be short term - where would any of us go if the country got taken over? The only option would be to try to get a boat to mainland Europe. Living in Britain suddenly feels very isolated & vulnerable. No sneaking through forests to try & get across a border!

I was going to go to bed after watching but I don't think I'd sleep & I'm a bit scared of the dreams I'd have if I did! It really is a terrifying thought!

Yes, Agnu, I found this episode very poignant with the current refugee crisis

Living in Britain suddenly feels very isolated

Or defensible from invasion by land, if it helps you sleep better.

Does that mean OfRed already has another baby by another commander?

No - handmaids don't always get pregnant, though no one will ever admit the men are infertile. If they don't get pregnant, they get moved on after a certain time - I guess a year, but I don't know. Also, they would have spent time in the training camps, which I'm guessing could have taken a year, till they're sufficiently beaten down and compliant. There are probably more than enough examples of how long that takes in the world - you either just comply, learn to hide your disagreement or end up dead.

I've always had the impression this is Offred's first placement, just because we haven't has mention of others before - but we do know others get moved on, like Ofglen. And we know there was a previous Offred - Serena Joy had mentioned how useless she was, like an untrained dog or something.

It is her third placement, isn't it? Does't Serena Joy remind Offred that she has to get pregnant this placement or she is off to the colonies.

I thought it was Offred's second placement - I thought there was a reference to the previous one not having worked out?

It's her third placement. That's why it's so important that she gets pregnant.

God, you can see so many offshoots here. What happens to June after she gets captured.

The 'training camps'. Making women comply
Her previous placements
And the children..

It was awful seeing the rescued handmaid having screaming nightmares and refusing to talk and wondering if June will be that traumatised.

Yesterday's episode was gripping as ever, though I did miss the "normal" Gilead setting and June.

The threads here are enhancing my enjoyment of the series. So thought provoking.

I came across this: (don't think there are definite spoilers if you've seen episode 7) where a writer explains the thinking behind some of the fleshing out they did www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/handmaids-tale-side-explained-1006214

I just twigged- the conversation about visas 'we should have left when Moira left'

Moira didn't make it out either. They didn't know, leaving earlier wouldn't have made any difference.

I really wanted to find out what was in the note from June to Luke. It was so beautiful and poignant. Of course, these were the only two sentences she could have written.

SPOILER if you haven't seen last night's episode yet:

I love you, but don't waste time and energy on me, save Hannah.

The note made total sense to me, if I was Offred I'd want him to save our child first. I thought it was a powerful note but weirdly not sad. It was a huge stroke of luck that she had the opportunity to send it.

How did the Mexican aide know June and then manage to get the note to Luke in Canada? Especially as it was a surprise to Luke. I'm a massive fan of the book and haven't minded the deviation in the series at all but am finding this part a bit unbelievable

Yeah it is pretty far fetched isn't it?! But so few good things happen I decided to just accept it

Maybe he didn't until she said her real name to the Ambassador; then he managed to collate the facts in his head and recall all her details ...

I have mixed feelings about last night's episode.

Although it was interesting in a "normal" tv series way, I don't want THT to be about Luke. I want it to be about Offred. It's her story, we so rarely see a woman's story played out, and in the book it is all about her and her feelings.

I felt Luke's episode detracted from that.

The night before she spoke to the ambassador, she told Nick her name; I'm guessing that Nick is working for the resistance and passed her name onto the ambassadors aide.

Luke would have registered her details as a missing person at the US embassy in canada and if the ambassadors aide is working with the U.S., he could have access to that database.

Well ok, maybe NannyR's explanation is more likely.

Luke could be working for the Resistance too, I think the connection may come out when they investigate the back story to Mayday.

Only just managed to catch this up...
What an episode. Spent the whole time feeling like I was about to go for tests or something....very stressful. So clever the way they show how quickly your life could change from ordinary everyday stuff to hiding in your boot to try to escape an oppressive regime... And as others have said, makes you think of the refugees the West vilifies. We could be them. They are like us.

We have no idea what life could be like. We get lost in day to day stuff and don't realise how shit the world is getting around us...that's true now. Clever that they stressed that - 'we should have left sooner'. We know Moira didn't make it, so how early would they need to have left? They - and we - would need to be looking beyond the media, the bright lights, work, drudgery - we'd need to be looking for the early signs. The warnings that most people would ignore. We'd need to get out in the early stages before everyone started panicking..,now there's a thought. How scarily shit would things have to get before you would gather up your family and a few treasured possessions and just got away??
I suspect most of us would leave it too late.

Interesting to wonder where we in the west would flee to if things in Europe got too twisted and dark. Not America, not now. Is anywhere safe anymore?

I'm glad they're doing Luke's story. Not all men are like the 'guardians'. Not all men are shits. Feminism is one thing, but we needed to see a good man persevering against the regime.

Interesting things ahead I think. How much harder will it be for June now that she knows Luke is alive? She probably won't be able to give in to her desire for 'proper sex' with Nick in the same way again. The Commander will seem even more fucked up. She'll start thinking about it all so much more. I hope there are no reprisals for her from talking to the Ambassador's aide... I was so relieved to see her note actually reach him. Will they be together again, ever?

And I too hope that we don't see too much of poor Hannah's story after she was taken. It's always the women and children who suffer the most in any conflict... :-/ Brute strength wins out over decency or morality when the shit hits the fan.

Such a shame that most of the men we know don't want to watch this. They're surely the ones who need to see it the most...

How scarily shit would things have to get before you would gather up your family and a few treasured possessions and just got away

I wonder during 1930s Germany how many people left it too late?

HelloMist I was a bit like you in that I missed the usual setting. However the ending was really emotional and the relief when Luke realised June was still alive was so powerful. I loved the song at the end too and have been listening to it this morning.

Was it just me or did an expression cross Luke's face like... I dunno. I reckon he's slept with someone else since leaving. I don't think he's a good guy. He's a low grade shit not a Guardian style Total Shit but still I wouldn't class him as a good guy. He wasn't outraged enough by June losing her job and control of her money to leave then. I can't imagine my DH suggesting we stay somewhere where I was clearly a second class citizen because things were still alright for him.

The escaped Handmaid had probably been subjected to Janine style treatment - she was probably a sexual abuse survivor and had been blamed for it. If she's had a child through rape for example and they took the child and blamed her for the rape in point and chant type sessions you can imagine that would be traumatic enough to leave you mute.