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Telly addicts

The wait is almost over! Sherlock Series 4!

600 replies

CaveMum · 31/12/2016 12:14

So excited! I couldn't wait for tomorrow to start a thread Grin

OP posts:
Arcadia · 17/01/2017 21:16

Can anyone remind me how he faked/survived the fall off the building in series 2?

HelenDenver · 17/01/2017 21:26

They never said for sure, but broadly involved landing on a big air mattress, a second body, John getting knocked down by an actor on a bike and lots of blood from transfusion packs.

Lottapianos · 17/01/2017 21:52

Eatingcheese, that's v funny. Grin

'Please let this be the end'
I can only agree sadly

HolisticAssassin · 17/01/2017 22:18

Mark Gatiss's comments about viewers going back to children's books I thought was in response to the Abominable bride episode. Which, iirc, was not that hard to follow nor did it have as many plot holes as this one. It might have come across as mardy but I think he genuinely meant he had no intention of dumbing down and that any drama should make the viewer think rather than have everything served on a plate. Which, with that episode (not my favourite by any stretch) was fair enough rebuttal.
What they have done, similar to RussellTDavies in Dr Who did at the end of his tenure is to reset it. Someone on Digital Spy used the word Origin Story...they are now at the Basil Rathbone point of character arc (Sherlock less sociopath, more human) hence the Lestrade good man comment and in theory ANY new show runner/new writer could theoretically come into season 5 and start anew, using short stories as source material.
Loose ends pretty much tied up. Eurus could theoretically make a return but certainly not needed to, Moriarty dead, Mary dead. In default mode, can go back to what made series 1 great but with Sherlock having better empathy. Irene could be used again.
And if not, they still managed to complete story arcs even though it does not seem as prepared in advance as the River Song Tardis storyline: Redbeard/East wind/Moriarty film footage/Mary....all dispatched with. The only real disappointment was the explanation of Sherlock's survival from the roof (complete with Sholly kiss) was never explored/confirmed fully, rather it was a tease/full blown love letter to fans that was given instead.
I would rather had Greg or even >appropriately Mrs H do the final monologue, rather than Mary, and fab baker street boys only makes me think of Jeff/Lloyd Bridges (deliberately I assume, fanfic again?) but I still think, all in all, it was done nicely. Episode 2 was so good, expectations were so high, Amanda talking along the lines of if able to pull it off, will be amazing....all this counted against it (and the lack of explanation re Eurus triple identities, just for shitsngiggles not withstanding).
Nonetheless, I will miss it. Would watch a S5 but think with such a backlash, the cast might just say Nope, not playing. The best thing was seeing my teen love it. She cried at the end (she never cries) as she saw it as being definitively the end of an era.

HolisticAssassin · 17/01/2017 22:35

^Apparently Amanda thought Sian's performance (4 characters: presumably Eurus, therapist, daughter, bus EA mistress) was groundbreaking/amazing if she could pull it off.
Now in fairness, I was one of the viewers in ep 2_who saw none of that coming (no glasses on, my excuse am sticking to it) so was bowled over. Groundbreaking though? Others have mentioned Orphan Black but also united states of Tara and I am sure many films have done multiple personality schtick. Apparently those shipping Sherlock and John were hoping groundbreaking meant some gay denouement eyeroll
Why people think it's okay to tweet vitriol is beyond me though. Invested or not, it's just crass.

HolisticAssassin · 17/01/2017 22:39

Finally, I thought I had got all the Saville references....someone pointed out the voluntary amnesia memory stuff in Toby's office was another allusion...to the BBC staff amongst others who chose not to report misgivings/deliberately put aside what they saw.
Episode 2 was very very good.
Episode 3 psychoville/LoG start/Butch and Sundance end and VG moments in between....Brother mine being my favourite and what made me choke.

HolisticAssassin · 17/01/2017 22:48

Ooh am Angry People giving Louise Brealey shit on twitter. About comment she never made (Moffat's very flippant/sarky comment on impact of I love you on Molly: oh she's fine, she had a drink went out and shagged someone). She has also been hassled for Molly's storyline/unrequited love being deemed weak/unfeminist.
Her response: fight the patriarchy, not me, and read some fucking Chekhov.
This is why I am not on social media.

HecateAntaia · 17/01/2017 23:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

APlaceOnTheCouch · 17/01/2017 23:12

Holistic yy I agree about the reset. It completed Sherlock's arc, allowing him to integrate intellect and emotion.
Whoever suggested Lestrade should have done the epilogue, was a genius. That would have been a fab end to the show

Davros · 17/01/2017 23:59

Moriarty's arrival by helicopter reminded me muchly of John Simm as The Master in Doctor Who. Both performances I enjoyed but nevertheless similar. I hated Episode one of this series, thoroughly enjoyed episode two and partly enjoyed the last one. Need to watch again. Overall I think it suffered from becoming too much about the characters and not much else

SinisterBumFacedCat · 18/01/2017 00:03

It's a shame Sherlock is being accused of misogyny, this is one of the few detective shows that doesn't rely on a young naked woman getting murdered every week.

HelenDenver · 18/01/2017 00:13

"fight the patriarchy, not me, and read some fucking Chekhov. "

Sing it, sister.

reader77 · 18/01/2017 02:03

I'd have like Mrs Hudson to do the epilogue. But that's just because I love her.

DrinkReprehensibly · 18/01/2017 08:35

I'm not a big Twitter user but when I've searched, except for a couple of queer-baiting accusations, I have only seen people saying how much they loved it. Like I say, not an advanced user. On the whole, for me, I'll still enjoy it so long as the cast I love are in there, but it could have been better as I said.

givemushypeasachance · 18/01/2017 11:43

I definitely second HolisticAssassin above - Mark Gatiss wasn't saying read a children's book/eat warm paste about general criticism, those were comments made after some critics said the Abominable Bride was too complicated for people to follow with the it's a dream/in his head elements.

There's a 2000+ signature petition going around saying the BBC, the production team and writers must "answer" for the queerbaiting in the series, and quite a few people tweeting Mark directly saying how dare he, as a gay man, be involved in leading on vulnerable LGBT+ youth and then crushing their hopes. It's all got a bit overblown in some areas - there were problematic aspects to the series from the start, but some fans convinced themselves there was a conspiracy to make Sherlock/John happen and the truth would be revealed...

A subset of them now think "people always stop at 3" is a clue and there's a secret fourth episode which will air this weekend and make it all right again. Hmm

HolisticAssassin · 18/01/2017 12:27

^oh my gosh that sounds like Larry levels of crazy

Amanda basically had two twitter followers questioning her on her 'groundbreaking' statement and calling bullshit. Both women. Queerbaiting was separate to that.
Louise had four women calling out Steven for misogyny on her account cos his is shut. All women. That's six too invested 'fans' too many imho.
This is why I am not on twitter.

SapphireStrange · 18/01/2017 12:31

Does anyone else think the text Sherlock sent was to Molly and they are now a couple? I missed that! When? Did we see the text?

Sinister, I take your point, but there is more than one way to hate women.

HolisticAssassin · 18/01/2017 12:50

Wasn't it something like You know where I am?
Thought it was to Irene Adler.
I thought the women in Sherlock were kick ass personally.

CaveMum · 18/01/2017 18:55

Agreed Holistic, I've never understood the "anti women" claims about Sherlock. Surely all the key female characters (Molly, Mrs Hudson, Mary, Irene and now Eurus) have been strong, independent women, all highly intelligent and capable.

OP posts:
Cloeycat · 18/01/2017 21:41

I have never picked up a vibe that a John/Sherlock coupling was on the cards. Are people just seeing what they want to see or am I exceptionally dim?

SinisterBumFacedCat · 19/01/2017 10:00

Wasn't there a lot of gay innuendo in the first series?

givemushypeasachance · 19/01/2017 10:15

The writers said when the first series aired that if you had two men in their thirties living together in a flat and spending all their time together, a lot of people would assume they were a gay couple. So they introduced that as a bit of a running joke - Mrs Hudson asking if they'd be needing a second room, saying it's okay with her as there are "married ones" next door; Angelo at the restaurant bringing a candle for the table when they're eating together; the gay couple who ran the pub in the Hound episode assuming S&J were together and would be sharing a double room. And weirdly Mrs H still thinking by series three that it's strange John would be getting married to a woman prompting his "as I keep saying I'm NOT GAY!" outburst.

To some people; this is "saying being gay is a joke" and dangling the Sherlock & John being inseparable and meant for each other in front of people's faces then laughing when they think it might actually happen. Despite the fact that 1/2 of the creators & writers is a married gay man who's patron of an LGBT helpline charity and spends a lot of time and effort raising awareness and funds for LGBT issues.

SapphireStrange · 19/01/2017 11:35

Cave, on Sherlock's women/misogyny:

  • Irene and Mary are male fantasies: a dominatrix and a Lara Croft-style assassin. They also between them play out the old virgin/whore dichotomy.

Irene was 'strong' and 'independent' to a point, yes (side note: does anyone ever use those words approvingly about a man? I think not; because we all assume that men just ARE those things) –but Irene had to be rescued by Sherlock in the end. Contrast with the original story, in which she gets one over on him, disappears and leaves him admiring her impotently (!) from afar for ever.

  • Mary, after her sexy Lara Croft background has been dealt with (summarily, I'd say), is cheated on emotionally by John. Then she becomes that other male fantasy:a dead woman (in fact, a dead mother –even more brownie points), who can no longer threaten men. Only then does John dare to fess up about the EA; she forgives him. He's off the hook. Isn't she saintly? As a reward for being dead and spotless, she's the one who gets to give her blessing to the 'boys' and close the show.
  • Molly is interesting; she has a normal job and is clearly educated and qualified. This the show deliberately undermines, though, by dint of her pathetic love for Sherlock and her appearance and manner – mousy, stammering, plain (NB the actor ISN'T plain but is made up, dressed, hair done etc to look as dowdy as possible) and, generally, sidelined unless she is of use to Sherlock and/or John.
In the last episode her phone call with Sherlock and its fallout are summarily 'tied up' by that vague shot of her in their flat, happy, smiling, and presumably having forgiven Sherlock. (BTW I refute Steven Moffat's fatuous comments that she wasn't as upset as Sherlock after the call and probably got drunk and had a shag Hmm). In this series in particular she has been seen at work/in professional mode less and less, only pulled into service to be the voice of concern and tell the audience exactly what kind of state Sherlock had got himself into. A highly trained pathologist is, surely, above summary examinations and diagnoses in the back of an ambulance.
  • Mrs Hudson. In early series she was a comedy older woman; flapping and fussing. The benign flipside of the Les Dawson-type battleaxe mother-in-law. She is indulged and 'put up with' by John and Sherlock. Isn't that big of them?
In this series she is allowed to drive a fast car and make jokes about kinky sex, IMO a) because it amuses the writers, in the manner of silly schoolboys, to put 'dirty' words in an old woman's mouth and have her do 'naughty' things and b) because as an old and (in their view) post-sexual woman, she is unthreatening and therefore can do these things without posing a danger. Isn't she funny driving her fancy car? I wonder if we would treat a man of her age group e.g. Jack Nicholson in a fast car as a joke to chuckle indulgently at.
  • Eurus: brainy, yes. Cool as a cucumber, yes –to a point. But manipulative, guiding the poor men through her series of puzzles. A metaphor IMO for how the writers think women generally manipulate men.
It is interesting that Moriarty, with whom she is explicitly allied, dies at his own hand in a blaze of glory and will be forever the unreachable, almost super-human, psychotic genius. He even gets, post-death, to get out of a helicopter looking sharp as hell and amuse/delight/arouse us one more time with that 'I Want To Break Free' routine. His place in history/mythology is assured.

Eurus, though, begins as a Moriarty-type figure but in the end is reduced to nothing more powerful or threatening than a vulnerable, half-dressed, infantilised figure; crouched in her childhood room, hair tangled, shaking, and insane beyond reach. The only thing that can help her at all? A hug from and the attention of a man who – guess what? – understands and forgives. How magnanimous of Sherlock. And of the writers.

This show really has left a bad taste in my mouth. A great pity; the cast is
outstanding and, when they're not being ugly misogynists, the writers have come up with some excellent writing and situations.

ShotgunNotDoingThePans · 19/01/2017 13:29

Phew - thanks for that - couldn't have put it better myself Grin!
< prostrates self before Sapphire >

SapphireStrange · 19/01/2017 13:33

Yeah, sorry, should have apologised for it being such an essay...