Rillington Place on BBC1

[FlowerFairiee]

Is anyone watching?

He had sex with them while they were dying, apart from when he strangled Ethel.

I can only think that Ethel stayed because she was terrified of him, why else would she lie on oath? Maybe she thought her brother wouldn't be enough to protect her from Christie. I think getting divorced was a taboo subject then too?

Yes I think she was too invested in trying to believe what she wanted to believe to see straight.

Divorce was stigmatised. Her life up north in her brother's house, too old to remarry and have children, pitied, not fully independent, would have been a bit bleak.

Such a disturbing and really sad story. fantastically acted and produced

The only thing I was confused at was why the young woman was looking through Ethel's clothes

I think Ethel stayed as she felt she had no other choice she knew he had had a liking for prostitutes and was a thief (that's why he had the coat) that's far from doing what he did i doubt she ever thought he murdered anyone

I thought the sexual side of his crimes was portrayed very subtly and sensitively. No nudity, nothing gratuitous. Makes a nice change

I think social stigma was a lot to do with why Ethel stayed, and maybe a hefty helping of denial too. Her poor brother having to leave her there in episode 1 after he had half-murdered her the first time - I was begging her to get back on the train with her brother! What a truly miserable life she must have had

women even now stay with men that abuse others and even kill,we have the benefit of welfare,ss,womens aid etc and no social stigma attached to divorce,well not like then

so how can we possibly expect some one like Ethel to break free

If it's a cold house and a cold season and the body isn't too fat, it can sort of mummify hidden under floorboards etc rather than decompose/stink.
I saw that in a documentary, it's not personal knowledge I swear ...

Interesting interview with the TV writers if you scroll down a bit.
www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/writersroom/entries/9d34d551-62d0-49fd-9ce3-860e7a474e2f

just a thought but maybe Ethel felt some way to blame as she refused sex with him which then maybe in her eyes felt guilty that he looked elswhere

even though he was doing it before

hope you understand what im trying to say

yes Noah - and thank God it was just hinted at, it was all about psychology and not all about gory details. His clothing half undone etc yuk, I couldn't watch if they did show any more, production was spot on - just right to show his creepiness, emptiness (that almost bored look on his face afterwards).
I think he didn't confess to the murder of the child because he didn't enjoy it and 'had to do it' - whereas the rest he could explain by his uncontrollable fetish.

cross post with Lotta re 'makes a change' and sensitivity.

Well yes, Ethel would have been a single woman but her brother loved her and she did spend years on her own before - surely anything is better than living with a grim husband, she didn't like her london 'life' one bit, and the realising he may be a murderer. Just really sorry for her. She didn't have t divorce as such either, but I think he had some mental power over her, too clever for her to be sure that he did more than visit prostitues.

to be fair, divorce did happen well before the 50s. I know disapproved of, but it was getting more liberal - to think that the 60s were just round the corner!

sea I thought she wanted to get properly back to marriage when he returned - she was making overtures, itr's him who wasn't interested (in ep 1) - I think it's more that she knew he didn't fancy her but went for all these young pretty women, so she must have felt unattarctive and that she doesn't deserve attention? The thing is, she did have her strong side, just such a shame it hasn't won over.

The vibe was much earlier than the 50s/60s - think because the set was so grim, almost like Victorian London...

I found last nights episode particularly disturbing. Ethel sleeping so peacefully and the way he killed her without hesitation was just horrific

If the events portrayed were accurate I don't know why Ethel didn't take her chance in court to expose him? She then defended him to Timothy Evans mum calling him a 'good man'. How did she ever sleep with the fear of what he was capable of?

The set was grim but true to the period. Many London houses were in that kind of condition, and the housing situation was dire. It was not that long after the war and people were just grateful for any kind of roof over their head.

turns out he did kill that Rina girl, he invited her round as a ruse, looking at the clothes.

He was born in 1899 and they were married in 1920. Very, very different times in terms of female emancipation, no?

If the events portrayed were accurate I don't know why Ethel didn't take her chance in court to expose him? She then defended him to Timothy Evans mum calling him a 'good man'. How did she ever sleep with the fear of what he was capable of?

It's a psychological riddle, isn't it? At the time she was described as an extremely submissive woman, and perhaps she was of quite low IQ (as Tim was, allegedly).

I've told this story before because I found it so striking. When I was at law college, we had a talk from an elderly criminal law solicitor. In his youth he'd been a junior member of Evans' defence team. What stuck in his mind was that absolutely no member of that team believed for a moment that Evans could be innocent. They did their job, they argued the case and they went through the motions, but they were all quite sure he'd killed his wife and child.

Vaneloppe, there were still many divorces in 1920s but in higher social circles. The point here is, she was on her own for many years when he disappeared so must have got used being on her own to some extent - I'm sure the shame of a husband just evaporating was not much different from a divorce.

And mainly we are talking about post-war period - she was mature and life was different for all then, many widows on their own after war etc. I don't think it was mainly social pressure in this case (who would really judge her if she led such a limited existance) - I think it's more that he had a hold on her mentally, maybe she saw him as superior because he was clever, and he deceived her successfully for a while. BUT she must have been on the edge of rebellion hence he had to kill her.

Just caught up with the last episode. This one was actually quite disturbing.

Tim Roth has played a blinder in this. I had a bit of a crush on him a few years back, but as Christie he actually makes my skin crawl.

All those poor, desperate women Christie murdered

daisy, I know what you are saying. Some women stay with horrible men, in all sorts of circumstances and walks of life, for all sorts of reasons.

I can't help but feel the last episode was rushed.

Apart from that, it was really good

That is really interesting verydullnamechange, it did cross my mind that it may have been one hell of a coincidence, it's not like husbands killing their wives was unheard of. Was she sexually assaulted? Could you tell back in those days?? Evans did confess after all although it seems there are a lot of doubts about how reliable that confession was it seems.

The solicitor wasn't suggesting that Evans actually was guilty. He was just saying how very high the odds were stacked against him, mostly due to his confession, when even his defence team were sure he was guilty. It was an anti-death penalty point as much as anything. The wife was assaulted post-mortem I think, that's been claimed as the clinching evidence that it was definitely Christie because two murderers would be a coincidence, but two necrophiliac murderers would be insanely implausible.

That said, one guy has claimed that Evans was guilty.
The Two Killers of RIllington Place

We're they both only actually convicted of/sentenced for one murder or is that just the way it was shown on TV. We saw the Judge deliver a verdict that Evans killed the baby but they didn't say anything about his wife and the Judge said Christie killed his wife but nothing was said about the other women.