Lassies of Lallybroch - SPOILERS

[MistressFraser]

New thread to discuss both the TV series of Outlander and the books by Diana Gabaldon. Discussion of spoilers allowed, if not positively encouraged.

I was having this discussion with DH, because I kept reading and snorting and he couldn't understand how I could be so engrossed in something I don't actually like.

I think Outlander contains the seeds of a perfect story, a perfect romance, perfect characters (from a fictional point of view I mean) - but the execution is really uneven. It could be a genre problem I think - the fact that DG obviously wrote with a bodice ripper readership in mind, but that her own interest lies more in the historical accuracy of the whole thing... So often it feels her prose is best when she describes scenery and nature (yawn) or bodily functions, or when she truly allows herself to get lost in her characters. But it's almost as if she has a fear of void and just needs to keep layering on more and more plot, more and more misfortune, more and more character quirks, because she's not quite sure why her readers are readin her.

Really I wish someone had shown her what outlander could look like if you throw some serious editing at it and treat it as a classy, intelligent story with at its heart the incredible appeal of a preternatural love story (which is exactly what Ron Moore has done, in choosing to oit this as a classy product rather than a chick flick).

So I love the story but don't love the books. I find my imagination going wild with alternative scenarios (I have one running through my head at present where Claire didn't leave, stayed behind and held forth at lallybroch, continuing to fight and advocate for Jamie throughout her life and grew tougher and meaner but so much more of a match for Jamie... )

I'm mad, aren't i

Also voyager is making me hate Jenny. And that misses me off because I LOVE TV JENNY AND WANT TO HAVE HER BABIES

No aka you're not mad and you've managed to articulate my feelings about the books. I felt the same about Twilight- there was the kernel of a good idea there but the execution was appalling.

I also like your idea for an alternative story. That's exactly how I would've hoped the story went. But it didn't

Nope, you aren't alone aka. That's totally how I feel, even down to the getting annoyed for not liking Jenny.

I spoke the difficulty with Claire staying was what would have happened with Briannna although she does annoy me at times, also Claire was wanted too at the time she left so it would have been hard to have her fighting Jamie's corner. I think the separation ultimately did make the more matched though

*suppose

Hip I lost 3 years of my life down the twilight fanfiction rabbit hole precisely because I wanted so desperately to get to the bottom of that core story. I am scared the same will happen with Outlander!

The only thing that makes sense re Brianna as a reason for going was that Claire mentions having had a difficult birth so they may have both died in 174something. Other than that, I don't see what mattered. Life would have been tough but they would have made it.

And the other thing I don't get is why she waited 20 years! all those prime years of shagging lost

She made that stupid promise to Frank, didn't she. I'm never really clear whether or not Frank researched Jamie. I think he did and didn't tell Claire what he found.

Yeah Claire has always said they both would of died in childbirth if she had stayed and the once she went back with Briannna no one knew if Briannna would be able to travel back through or not so I guess she waited to be with her daughter. Plus she was convinced Jamie was dead so not as much to go back for.

FRANK! Why do we have to care about Frank! It really makes no sense at all. She should have had the balls to leave him once it became clear she would never love him again

But she was only convinced Jamie was dead because she didn't research it.

pixie I always thought he did look into it withe the vicar and then didn't tell her but I agree it's not really clear

Yeah she didn't look into it but would she have left her child to go back to Jamie if she had known?

She waited for Brianna to be grown up enough to be independent and she thought Jamie was dead ( there are hints in the books that Frank new that Jamie survived but didn't tell Claire). She did have an absorbing worthwhile career to keep her going too.

I agree about too many characters, disasters etc. and the need for editing but the descriptive passages are very immersive, I go there in my head, which I enjoy.

I don't mind the characters being flawed, in fact Claire reminds me a bit of my Grandmother ( roughly same vintage as C) who was also a doctor. She was looked up to and admired by many people, turned to for help and advice and well- loved by my grandfather, she was also very tough and resourceful but she didn't suffer fools gladly, tended to take charge, and was so honest and principled that she could alienate people sometimes.

I don't need Jamie to be perfect either, more believable if he isn't, but I do end up rooting for Roger and Ian in the later books.

Bollocks to Frank, I would have been down at the records office before you could say 'Lallybroch'.

In fact, sod Brianna too. If that whiny, red haired brat was my daughter, you wouldn't have seen me for dust! (I jest of course )

Don't know what the colour of her hair has got to do with anything Apologies, everyone! I think I was just thinking of that kid who was on the episode the other day.

I think we will find out that Frank knew Jamie survived Culloden bur didn't tell Claire. Twat

I know all the reasons DG set up for Claire not to go back, I'm just saying I think those are narrative choices I wish she hadn't made. My current AU version of DIA goes somehow like this: Claire doesn't or cannot go through for some reason - she sets off to lallybroch with Fergus (thus also assisting with the essential task of delivering the deed of sassine). Brianna is born dramatically but somehow survives. The rest can continue more or less like the first part of voyager except that all the years Jamie lives in a cave they keep shagging a lot, so they can have more babies (no Geneva, no laogahire, etx). not sure what happens next but will keep you posted :)

I think we should petition for aka to write the next book. Perhaps you could send them back to Scotland so they can peacefully live out the rest of their days at Lallybroch?

Or maybe have Claire waking up and everything from the second half of DIA is a dream and you get to rewrite the next four of five books.

Frank did know what happened to Jamie, didn't he? He asked Rev W to put the stone in the graveyard near BJR's grave, so he must have researched him to know he actually existed (outwith Claire's mind).

I think we will find out that Frank knew Jamie survived Culloden bur didn't tell Claire. Well ,yes. there is the scene in the churchyard when Claire discovers the gravestone, and later on Roger finds a letter from Frank to the Rev, in which Frank said he'd had the stone put up iirc.

I totally missed that scaryteacher! What an utter asshole.

Love your version AKA. That's more like it.