Lassies of Lallybroch - SPOILERS

[MistressFraser]

New thread to discuss both the TV series of Outlander and the books by Diana Gabaldon. Discussion of spoilers allowed, if not positively encouraged.

Yes, you're right. I don't think Jamie and Claire would have anything in common after those years apart and everything he went through. But I think the producers of the show will do a fine job with what they've got but I can't see them going beyond Drums Of Autumn if they get far.

Haven't seen the new promo yet, so that's something to keep me going til next week

Right. Finally watched. Very happy with the kilts, knees, bare chest shots and the lovely woolly-ness of it all.

To speculate why Claire had to go back, yes she would be a focus for the British post Culloden and probably put Lallybroch in danger even after Jamie handed it over to Jenny & Ian's son.

I really liked the first part of Voyager when they were apart; but I'm strange like that.

pixie I enjoyed the first part of Voyager as it was from Jamie's point of view. Also, I'm not overly keen on book Claire so I wasn't that bothered that she wasn't in it, but I love tv Claire and the thought of her having to leave Jamie and go back to bloody Frank makes me want to cry.

I really wish that they had got James Cosmo to play Lord Lovat. He can do menacing so well. I thought the character came across as obnoxious rather than anything else. James Cosmo does the anger barely in check thing so well. I don't get where they are going with Laoghaire at all and I'm beginning to wonder if we are not getting series 3,and they are not telling us in case viewing numbers drop.

I loved the first part of voyager too, it's what made me fall in love with Jamie, and I loved the end of DIA leading up to culloden - I know lots of people on the other thread are saying why should we care, since we know it all ends in tears. Well I for one am so looking forward to it all, the drama, the heartbreak, I thought it was the absolute best part of the series so far. Don't care at all for the Alex Randall subplot and even less for Claire back in modern days but I'll feel robbed if we don't get a full length episode of Claire and Jamie's last night together.

I'm grimly looking forward to seeing the last of the duke of sandringham and hope they don't spare us the gore - I literally screamed when reading that part!

In other news, once Claire and Jamie get on that wretched boat in voyager it all feels a little bit like a pantomime, doesn't it? Claire (who - let's not forget- is pushing 50) has just somehow managed to escape from a British man of war with some rudimentary life vest thingamajig and has survived a storm so severe it has wrecked their ship. I'm not not enjoying it, if that makes sense, but it's ridiculous stuff.

Re Claire going back. I don't think it's After she comes back, though, he finds his way again and it is looking after he that she would have been a focus for the English. They knew what was coming post Culloden - the violence, oppression, famine and the Clearances. It was not a life Jamie would have wanted for her whether he survived or not, and clearly he was not planning to. She would have been lucky to live through it at all, even at peak health. In the have starved, pregnant, stressed and terrified state they were all in, she had no chance. Jamie thought Frank would have been waiting for her because he couldn't conceive that he wouldn't. We know that he waited 20 years for her himself not withstanding. It was a desperate decision made in desperate circumstances.
As for Laoghaire, he married her not because he wanted to, but because she needed someone to look after her and her children. He needed someone to need him. He wanted to back out at the last minute but was overwhelmed by jenny's plans and all the guests etc. Laoghaire married him knowing that Jamie didn't love her but, perhaps, hoping that she could make him. When it became obvious that he was still in love with Claire, she, Laoghaire, became very bitter and angry and eventually drove him to leave her. It's yet another example of how Jamie's constant attempts to do the right thing backfire and bring him heartache, another step in his isolation and loss of humanity. Which only comes to an end when Claire comes back.
He definitely wanted to die at Culloden and, before Claire comes back, is angry that he didnt. A lot of his decisions are self destructive after that. He has little to no care for himself and its only his responsibilities that keep him going. After she comes back, though, he finds his way again and looking after and loving her gives him purpose. She gives his life meaning again. They have both changed, but are willing to take each other any way they can and accept each other as they are now for the sake of the love they shared and the sacrifices they both made.
Doesn't stop Claire grinding my gears, though.

Round of applause for lessstressed! Yes to everything you said.

I screamed at that Duke of Sandringham bit as well! It really comes as such a shock...

Made a hash of the beginning of that last post - I have no control o er my typing on a tablet
Meant to say that I don't think Jamie sent her back just because she may have been a focus for the English hunting traitors, but because they knew what was coming. It was a hell of a time to live in the Highlands, many, many people didn't survive and those that did had to live hand to mouth in terrible fear for years. He didn't want that either for Claire or their child.

that came through, Lessstressed, even with the typos :)

I agree and i think that's some of the strongest writing in the series so far. not just that but they were all sick, starving and basically desperate.

right, people, I have sunk into the darkest pits of obsession so you don't have to:

www.outlandercommunity.com/index.php?f=insideoutlander&s=207

this is the script with the screenwriter's notes. For those of you wondering what Jamie was saying to the baby in Gaelic, for example.

That's interesting aka I'll take a closer look at that later.

Just been reading somewhere that the 'jump the shark' bit DG was referring to was the stuff with Laoghaire. And apparently in the books, Jamie doesn't know that Laoghaire set Claire up as a witch, which begs the question, why the hell didn't Claire tell him?

Obviously, the producers agree with me which is why we've now got all this Laoghaire stuff that wasn't in the books

She does tell him eventually in A breath of snow and ashes I think. She explains not telling him before, saying that in all the confusion of the escape and telling him the truth about her she forgot all about it.

She tells him about Laoghaire eventually. Noone really knows about it. I don't think jenny would have matched Jamie up with Laoghaire if she had known, because she was very shocked when Brianna confronted Laoghaire about it at lallybroch. The whole situation is a mess but that's crucial for the way the plot develops in some areas throughout the later books.
I can't remember if it's Echo in the Bones or Hearts Blood, but the whole mess eventually allows Jamie to find a measure of redemption and resolution, even though Laoghaire and her partner try to bash his head in with a mallet! She is a very bitter woman.
Do you know what annoys me? By the last book, Claire is 63 give or take and yet she is still " Mo nighean donn" why is she not " Mo nighean Bhan". I'm not quite 50 and I reckon I'm about as grey as she is described as being. It's so not fair. Why does she not age. She is regularly described as "very lovely" " very desirable" etc, which is fair enough, older women can be very beautiful as well, but it's so not fair! Also still has glorious hair even though he is 57. Is this another sign of his awesomeness? I am so shallow.

Agree, lessstressed. I'm only in voyager but it already annoys me! Idk if you have read the Poldark books but I absolutely loved the way Ross and Demelza's relationship acknowledges and incorporate their ageing.

I am glad that the show has gone dor the logical choice of having Claire tell Jamie about laoghaire. It is much more in keeping with their relationship and emphasis on honesty and respect.

In other news, voyager is getting sillier by the page but I'm enjoying it in a totally wtf way. Was quite touched when Jamie finally "adopted" fergus at his wedding (even as j keep at fergus marrying a 15 year old!)

My solution to the ageing thing is to pretend they haven't aged! I mentally take 10 years off them and voila - it all makes sense.

I agree about the aging thing lessstressed if you're going to have characters that are a bit more mature, you need to show all the things that go with being older, not having them act the same way as if they were teenagers.

As for Jamie's hair, my DH is 45 (and also ginger) and whist he's not going bald, his hairline is noticeably thinning, bless him.

Haven't read the Poldark books for many, many years, AKA, but I remember them aging together well. I just don't think a 60 year old woman would be able to jump between ocean going ships on a road to rescue her 55 year old, 6ft 4, unfeasibly powerful husband from press gangers! If you are only on Voyager, you haven't reached this bit of nonsense yet. I know adrenaline lends you strength but really.
I find that I justify it all to !myself by picturing Claire as an old hag and Jamie as only a bit older than me, which makes it a lot less questionable that I would jump on him like a trampoline.
Agree re Fergus and Marshall. Can you imagine what would happen nowadays if a 30 year old man was courting a 15 year old girl. Although, it wasn't uncommon in the past because so many women died very young in childbirth etc.

I suppose I wouldn't care if I were living in the wilds of colonial America, but I like to put myself in Claire's place No access to hair dye, no tweezers, no hair straighteners or hair products, no HRT. I'm not sure whether the idea is horrific or completely liberating (or perhaps Claire's got round to 'inventing' all that stuff, who knows ).

Good grief. My tablet hates Gaelic. Marshall obviously should read Marsali.
Which, incidentally was a name I wanted for Dd but which was dismissed out of hand by DH.

I would look like the Wicked Witch if I lived in the back country of 18th venture anywhere. I have really curly hair, which, in its prime was very, very dark brown. Now it's greying, with the odd white bit (still a lot of dark but no longer rich) and often looks like I've been p!rugged I to the mains, especially in the morning. Goodness knows how I would manage without decent Conditioner and curl tamer. Although, doubtless I would, like Claire, invent fab shampoo, soap etc that would keep me eternally young and groomed.

My DH is 53 and was once gingery, or irn bru coloured. Now he is just bald. And as for Jamie being able to serve Claire several times a night!!!!!! He truly is superhuman.

I know, doesn't bear thinking about it, does it? My hair reacts to humidity as well, I'd look like Monica on that episode of Friends where they go to Hawaii or wherever

Agree the sex thing is a bit ridiculous as well. We get it, Jamie is an unstoppable love machine and Claire is irresistible

Ffs Dh is only 45 and already he is saying that my Jamie inspired expectations are unreasonable!

I find that reminding myself regularly that this is a series about time travel Definitely helps in managing expectations regarding the level of wtfery. If I can suspend disbelief on that front, why not everything else. Plus Claire probably invented viagra so there you go :D

In Poldark at some point Ross buys hair dye for Demelza. That always struck me as something that could totally happen "there, love, you're letting yourself go".

And while we're on the topic I don't think we've yet mentioned the letter that Claire leaves for Brianna, which concludes with the truly unforgivable words "try not to get fat".

To which Jamie, in tears, responds "oh you're such a good mother".

And while we're on the topic I don't think we've yet mentioned the letter that Claire leaves for Brianna, which concludes with the truly unforgivable words "try not to get fat"

I can't remember that, but even as a joke, that's disgusting.