Lassies of Lallybroch - SPOILERS

[MistressFraser]

New thread to discuss both the TV series of Outlander and the books by Diana Gabaldon. Discussion of spoilers allowed, if not positively encouraged.

I wouldn't say I dislike Jamie as time has gone on, but Roger is possibly a more sympathetic character given that he's more modern in his outlook (although he would be older than my dad given he's about 6 in 1948)

I like the Ian's and I like jenny, she is a strong woman who wants the best for her family, or at least her version of what's best for them. I don't like Claire or Brianna, they are both self absorbed and whiny, although they get a bit better as time goes on. Claire's amazing medical prowess really, really annoys me, making penicillin and ephedrine for goodness sake! Can't bring myself to care much about John grey or even William to be honest, although they are important characters.
Jenny comes back in the much later books, which is good.

Whoops! Have just thought - shouldn't it be Lasses of Lallybroch? Might have to get MNHQ to edit...

I really don't like Lord John. I would have been quite happy for him to have been bumped off books ago. His offer of a solution to Brianna' s marital state was eeeeeeeeek.

I also wonder about his portrayal in the TV series and whether he will put viewers off watching.

Speaking of Lord John, there are a lot of coincidences in the book. Such as Lord John and Willie happening upon Claire and Jamie in America. It would appear that America is almost as small as DG thinks Scotland is.

I'm not keen on Lord John, I don't think it would put me off watching though. Not a fan of Aunt Jocasta (?) either. It's a shame that DG sent Geilis bonkers because I quite liked her.

No, lassies is fine. It's the plural of lassie, surprisingly enough Lasses is the plural off lass.

My main issue with the Geneva scene was that jenny would have been writing to Jamie about her treasonous activities -in English!! And also Jamie could totally have found a way out of it eg claiming his balls had been bayoneted or similar.

I didn't find it that improbable that he would marry L but the idea that he would go back to lallybroch with Claire without mentioning it... Crazy.

AKA, I also loved the Jamie bits of part 1 voyager. Unless you're a Lord John hater, you would love the Scottish prisoner which is a Lord John book but at least 75 percent has Jamie in. It covers the period at helwater but in loads more detail. It's really really good.

I think the Geneva scene was written purely so Jamie could have a son. But there were so many better ways it could have been done. Jamie thought he'd lost Claire, would anyone have not understood if J & G had just had a fling? He didn't need to be blackmailed into shagging her (and then forcing himself on her). The whole thing was just.. urgh.

And I'm only on Book 5 but so far Willie has been totally insignificant. I assume he comes into his own later on, otherwise he's yet another completely pointless character (spoil away, if he does ).

Agree about Laoghaire and Lallybroch. Why would he take Claire there, into the midst of everyone who knows about it. Doesn't make any sense at all. In another life, I would find poor old Laoghaire quite hard done by, though. But as I said earlier, she's just the stereotypical, jealous romantic foil.

Just marking my place

I think they could have had a fling. Jamie was an indentured servant, effectively a prisoner, and Geneva was a well born lady. The scandal would have ruined her, no one would want to take her in marriage, and would have had dire repercussions for him. The whole scenario was a plot device to give him a son but in such a way that it causes him even more heartbreak and future difficulty. It's another step in Jamie's isolation from normal human contact and one which changes him profoundly. He lives with the shame, built and fear all his life.

Morning all!

Jane I'm not a Lord John hater (yet - I suppose more shit will hit the fan as we progress?) and in fact I really loved the whole prison part at the beginning of Voyager. I thought it showed Jamie in his best light - a natural leader, selfless, thoughtful and genuinely committed to the welfare of the men fate threw in with him. I also thought the LJ attentions towards him touching and overall very respectful. I suppose it was a way to show how a man loving another man doesn't need to own him despite the position of power he has over him and so served as a nice mirror for BJR. Of course things may yet change.

Will definitely read the book you recommend!

I also didn't hate the Geneva bit and I completely agree with lessstressed's excellent analysis. Jamie is so isolated and lonely and so adrift - really struggling to hold on to his humanity and power. Geneva manipulates him and uses him and he uses her in a way - it is a pretty nasty transaction overall but understandable in the context of the situation they are both in.

Now where Voyager is seriously starting to get on my tits is with Claire's return. So she shows up in Jamie's shop, basically only worried about whether she's still hot, 20 years gone by during which Jamie must have changed considerably and visibly, and a couple pages later it's all high jinks and fun capers. I had to do some serious filling in of gaps there to imagine how they both must have felt, emotionally, physically etc. It felt so rushed and superfificial! Especially compared to the utter heartbreak of the Culloden scene which was the last time they were really together. If they ever film this, I hope they will give them a whole episode in a room alone!

Up thread, I should have said "I don't think they could have had a fling.

And built = guilt

I've said it before but Claire burns my biscuits. The only thing to be said for her is that she saves Jamie. She gives him an anchor and a way to reconnect with his humanity. He is lost without her. It's !much the same with the men in Ardsmuir, they give him a reason to keep going. He needs people to lead and to be responsible for. That carries on throughout the books. It's having Claire and his men that give him a raison d'être, without that he is completely adrift. I think that vulnerability combined with strength is part of his appeal.

Re lord John, a lot of what he does in the books is motivated by his love for Jamie. He can't talk about it and certainly not with Jamie himself, so he acts it out instead. He's not a bad bloke, and he doesn't do anything particularity unpleasant, even in the last book with claire, but I can't get worked up about him.

I nodded so hard at your posts lessstressed my head almost came off!

Completely agree with everything you're saying. It also explains the whole Geneva thing. Jamie is not perfect, and needs a focus for his superhuman strength, his boundless sense of honour, and a certain recklessness when it comes to himself. Without that focus and connection he is literally ready to self destruct and we see this happen at wentworth once he gives up Claire; at culloden where he begs to be killed; with Geneva and then God knows where else in future books.

I think the show got this perfectly in season one but it's been lost in season two which has mostly been about Claire. I am waiting for the Scotland bits with great trepidation, I really really loved the last 1/3 of DIA tragic as it was.

So someone asked about Jenny on the other thread.

The answer if anyone comes actively looking for spoilers is that there is literally nothing to do in Lallybroch and winter nights in the Highlands are long and cold. So yeah, Ian and Jenny breed like rabbits.

In fact, the birth of baby Maggie is not even the most memorable one chez Fraser: I bloody loved the birth of young Ian in the books! One of my many favourite scenes so far

Right-o, thanks 👍

Can't say I remember the birth of any her bairns tbh. Skim read a lot of DIA.

Can't bring myself to watch the DVDs of Outlander, as I have been reading and rereading the books for years, so the actor playing Jamie won't match up to the Jamie in my head iyswim. Am waiting for the new one (book 9), so am rereading the others to get myself back up to speed.

that scene is in Voyager, Hip.

Scaryteacher, welcome. TV Jamie is different than book Jamie but I'm sure you can find room in your lust heart for both! I love them both to the point of perdition.

that scene is in Voyager, Hip

I read that one properly too. I might go back to them once the tv series is done, give me something to hold on to til (hopefully) S3.

New here but a massive fan of books and show can I join please re Lord John I read it he came looking for Jamie not stumbled on him? Maybe I need to re read

Hello and welcome nosey

You're probably right, actually. I skim read a lot of the books and obviously missed a load of stuff. It's no secret that I find the series a lot better than the books but I'm in a minority of one on here

Hip I'm wih you - so far show >>>>> books for me!

Lord John comes looking for Jamie on the ridge so that he can see, and spend a little time with, William. It's another demonstration of his love for Jamie. Works out well for everyone because of the measles thing, though and the visit is much longer than planned.

Yeah, I wonder why that is aka. It's not often I prefer the adaptation to the source material (in fact, I can only think of one other instance) but in this case, a 1000 times over.

I read the first book and loved it. But then DG just took them off in an entirely different direction to what I was hoping for. I feel like none of the characters get a chance to breathe and just slow down and enjoy their lives. There's always a rape or kidnapping just around the corner

Yes, and Claire spends most of Voyager in a perpetual state of undress and, no matter how many times they ask, no one ever seems to prioritise getting her some actual clothes to wear.

Is mighty irritating, esp how many people seem to insist on ripping her dress off her.