[spoiler alert] Game of thrones series 6 Ep 1 ***Edited by MNHQ to ask people to be circumspect about posting plots between the 2am Sunday showing and 9pm Monday showing***

[wickedlazy]

Did anyone else stay up to watch it?

What did you think of the ending? I was

Tommen would not legitimise Jon, the Starks are still traitors

I'm not sure either Bran, Sansa OR Rickon could legitimise Jon.

To do so would be to disinherit themselves as Jon would then become the eldest son. Sansa inheriting if there are no sons.

It could be claimed that Stannis HAD created Lord Jon Stark and that that creation still stands.

Also, one other person could legitimise Jon.....

Lady Stoneheart

Lady Stoneheart surely wouldn't legitimise Jon and put him ahead of her own children?

Catelyn Stark was not exactly fond of Jon in the show and was downright unpleasant to him in the books.

Aaah yes, propiis but in one of the books (not sure which) she admits being a shit to Jon and bitterly regrets it. God which one?

I am so annoyed I can't remember the book you're referring to Every

I've tried looking round on the Wiki. I can't find it :( i know it happens though. I'll work it out.

Couldn't Jon be fighting in Stark armour just because that's his side? He doesn't have to be legitimate or King in the North. Anyway, I reckon we're long overdue to find out a bit more about his parentage. Is there anyone in the audience left who believes he's Ned's son? I don't. I was so proud of myself when I read the books a few years ago and suddenly thought that maybe he was Lyanna Stark's child by Rhaegar Targaryen. My daughter poured cold water on that by saying that that theory was all over the internet! Oh well.

Why would Lady Stoneheart have the ability to legitimise anyone? She's not the Queen or King of anything and never has been.

Dany could do it.

I think Bran or Sansa (depending on how we feel about primogeniture) could do it - there's probably clauses were "legitimised bastard" is lower down than "proper actual heir". In fact there must be clauses like that or else why would Ramsay be so annoyed when Sansa tease him about his father's pregnant wife (fat Walda?) having another son?

Do we know that uncle Benjen is dead? I think he knows Jon's lineage and could prove it with the Jon-doesnt-burn thing? He wouldn't need legitimising then, surely? Can't they only be legitimised if they're actually bastards? high chance I'm talking utter bollocks

If R+L = J, we have no evidence that they were married, and if they were married then that wouldn't result in Jon being a Stark...

Rhaegar was married to Elia Martell, so his liaison with Lyanna Stark was either an affair or a second marriage. I don't know if the Targaryens were polygamous. I didn't think so, although they were keen on marrying brothers to sisters . The Mad King, who was father of Rhaegar, Viserys and Daenerys, was married to his sister.

Rhaegar was Daenerys's older brother so if R was Jon's father D is Jon's aunt. Would that put the kybosh on D marrying Jon? In Targaryen terms it might seem a reasonable move.

Targaryens were historically sometimes polygamous.

Daenerys' parents were brother and sister so from her point of view, marrying her nephew would be no biggie. Not sure Jon Snow would feel the same way though.

Why would Lady Stoneheart have the ability to legitimise anyone? She's not the Queen or King of anything and never has been.

Roose Bolton has been able to legitimise Ramsey because he is his father and has acknowledged him.

Ned could have made Jon legitimate but Catelyn wasn't having any of it. With the loss of Robb, and the younger boys MIA she could in theory acknowledge him as Stark.

Incest is no biggie in the Targareyn family, it's why they've got that hair/eyes

Isn't it Tommen who legitimised Ramsay?

We don't know that Benjen is dead and yes he may be the only person left who knows.

We ARE getting flashbacks this series.

It's worth noting that Ned kept the truth so secret he didn't even let his wife in on it to stop her hating Jon and agreeing to legitimise him, both of which she surely would have done had she known he was Ned's nephew and not the product of adultery.

Following the coup, his claim to the The Iron Throne would've marked him for death and Ned didn't even trust Cat with that.

I also thought that Tommen (or perhaps Joffrey) legitimised Ramsay.

A parent can recognise them, but I don't know if that gives them full rights or not.

Promise me, Ned.

Tommen as pointed out by Sansa, is also nothing but a bastard, and not the true king. It seems likely that Tommen is not long for this world.

The only legitimate heir to the throne left is Dany

I think really we're back into the realms of "the throne belongs to whoever can take it and hold it".

Robert had it by right of conquest. There was some guff about his family line but the only real use of a family line is to persuade others to support you.

Since Stannis, Renly and Robb assembled armies it's been civil war mode. Really right now it's Cersei and Jaime, both despised Lannisters, holding the throne in the name of their illegimate son, which just won't stand. In the books too, Tommen is what, six? And Margaery is just his soon to be wife.

The throne belongs to whoever has it at the end of the series , but the best claim is Dany's ancestrally. Tommen is the bastard of a kingslayer and no blood relation to Robert the Usurper .

Are we keeping this thread for episode 2?

Gendry's claim to the throne is equal to Dany's surely?

Not really. Gendry is the illegitimate son of a man who seized the throne by force and who is now dead and gone, along with his elder son, his daughter, both his brothers and his only niece. Gendry is a lovely chap but he was born into a poor family and was apprenticed to a blacksmith. He hasn't got any of the knowledge and connection he'd need to convince the noble families and/or the common people to support him.

Dany is the last surviving member of the dynasty which held power in Westeros for three centuries. Admittedly they took it by force back then, but isn't that what all monarchs do?

Yes Dany and Stannis were the only ones with legitimate claims I think.

If Jon cant marry Dany, Gendry could ...

There are some who believe Jon has a twin in Meera Reed, the theory being that her father, Howland Reed, took her from the tower of Joy when Ned took Jon, after the death of his sister, to split them up for protection.
There are some very interesting theories in internet-land.
I'm very much looking forward to the TOJ flashback scenes, hopefully it will answer the question of Jon's parentage.