Our Girl and Captain James Discussion Thread Vol III

[icemist]

and another new shiny thread

Ilovelblue I hope the procedure goes very smoothly and you have a great time indulging in OG while you recuperate!

Oh I forgot about the management question! May ponder more as CJ seems so perfect it's hard to be objective - but...kissing a subordinate in a bunker less than discreetly (with the door ajar! ) qualifies as bad management, right?

Good management - I admire how he is able to 'arse around' with Two Section and then suddenly snap into The voice of authority and how they all respect him in both modes.

ilovelblue You're right - he is so bloody sexist in ep1 in how he humiliates her in front of the others. The testing her skills as a medic I can understand - the 'speed dating' jibe as well as the 'stilettos' one was quite uncalled for actually as it was taking the piss out of her as a woman, and nothing she could do about it. I can imagine that going on...

Just read those letters from Cyrus Thatcher, so sad :(

I like richtea's idea of Molly as a plucky gun dog, brave and loyal. Or maybe a mongrel (spaniel crossed with terrier, so she'd have the silky ears but a terrier's tenacity and fighting spirit.)

As for CJ's management skills, I particularly dislike his humiliation of Molly when she appears for the run in the wrong gear. The 'stilletos' jibe is too much and he seems to be really playing to the rest of 2 section and of course as others have said, this sets the tone as to how they treat her. I think because he thought she was a 'bad apple' he made a point of singling her out.

Good luck for your procedure ilove!

oh my, those letters are heart-breaking

Capt James was awful in the 1st episode! But it didn't take long for him to change his mind on Molly . I think there was a bit of hero-worship on his part after she saved Smurf's life.

loveblue no worries, I think we still have plenty of room to make ourselves publicly albeit anonymously ridiculous!! Best wishes! And stay with us! We'll love you even wiith afghan grime in your hair!
SPO theme was a good one. I think you mostly said it all. In general I suspect the plot was a bit too fast in the transition from chauvinist barking captain to singing pally. That would not happen in reality and I think any sudden change in behaviour would undermine the trust/respect of people under his charge.
Also, he wasn't clear to Smurf when he asked him if he could resume his duties as lead man. The situation wasn't ideal, but he should have explained what he was expecting from him in order to do it, the "I hope so" answer is just unsettling.

I will throw another topic in the mix:
"Do you think the choice of making Molly a medic was a deliberate way to make her character more acceptable to the large public, as female soldiers that only kill are too difficult to imagine?"
I think so. The scene of the episode 2(?) where the group is shot on the mountain pass clearly see first Molly engaging fire, the (a bit ridiculously) 2 mega planes come to the rescue and drop mega bomb on a handful of miserable chaps in sandals and rifle insurgents ....at which point KillerMolly becomes NurseMolly and saves the life.
(Remember years ago Demi Moore shaving her head and getting down to hilarious sentences like "suck my D", to prove she could be a navy seal or something?)
It's clear that there are plenty of women in various countries armies who only have combat roles (pilots etc). But the BBC may have feared that portraying them was a step too far?

I might well be over-paraphrasing but did TG not say something in the DVD extras about him having asked what role would allow a female to go to Afghan so soon after training and the answer being 'combat medic'?

on the DVD- they said that the quickest way for a woman in the army to get to Afghan was as a combat medic, so when writing the one-off TG must have had an idea then of how the storyline would develop.

There is a lot probably overlooked for the storyline. Which may not have been had it been over a longer period of time

Yes monopod that was what he said. Also, at least in the army, women still aren't permitted in directly front line roles for the sole purpose of killing. They can only fire in self-defence and/or as in Molly's case to protect a patient. Although its under discussion and generally thought it will be permitted this time.

Thanks for the link Smurfingreat - it's a gut wrenching read - they were lovely, lovely letters though. Drying my tears and saving the link so that when my kids are a bit older I can show them it too (maybe have to edit the sweary bits!).

I think kids should learn about the huge personal sacrifices that are made in conflicts.

It's like in the pilot of OG - the bit where they get taken to the memorial with the veteran reading out the poem, and the scene where Molly is volunteered to escort the grieving couple who arrive at Pirbright to collect their dead son's belongings. The silent scene of their grief and pain was incredibly moving. I had never even thought about soldiers having to write "death letters" ("it's hard to imagine how anyone would miss some of you pains in the backsides; but missed you most assuredly, will be...") It's humbling.

Just thinking about CJ's sexism in Episode 1. If he'd gone on tour to get away from his divorce arrangements etc perhaps he was not in a pro-female state of mind and thought someone like Molly was the last thing he needed - little did he know!

Let me put it like this: would have been different for you if Molly had not been a medic?
(I think the answer by TG is politically correct and all, but it's not the only truth)

Must go and read the letters. Not sure I am in the mood for crying, though. Maybe will save for daylight tomorrow!

Good luck ilove for your procedure, make sure you rest and do plenty of OG research, lucky you!

The letters from Afgan, so sad, what with the sainsburys advert, Noor Inayat Khan and letters I am a blubbering mess!

Not sure I would say I didn't like CJ in Ep1, I can't admit it!! However very sexist towards Molly, particularly the stilettos comment and his smirk to the rest of the platoon, only Smurf that didn't join in, bless!

Am pleased to report that I also managed the "I'm not a fully functioning soldier until I've had my first shot of coffee in the morning" line too today. Best bit is that I wasn't even thinking about it, just came out so naturally. Sounded pretty cool too, I thought.

Decided to have a break from OG soundtrack on the earphones this afternoon and catch up with some afternoon plays on Listen again. I was of course drawn to 'Death of a Soldier' and very nearly bawled my eyes out. If you're a fan of radio drama, have a listen. Very poignant, told from the mothers point of view. It made me want to down tools, rush to school and gather DS up, never to let him out of my sight again. Anyway, probably not the lightest of plays but if you fancy it, radio 4 Listen Again, afternoon drama.

Rhubarb yes I remember reading about that - think the review was linked on an earlier thread?

I'm chuffed, I just managed to get in "I need a shower, I'm mingin'!" Then I had to explain to DH what minging meant. I swear, he isn't making this feel natural at all.

Smurfingreat many thanks for the link, very moving.

Ilovelblue hope everything goes well. I am sure we will do our very best to keep you diverted during rehab.

PTS thanks for the images. Goodness me I've gone all hot and bothered!

Yes she wouldnt be in the FOB and in some of those scenarios if she hadnt been a medic - she couldnt have been just an ordinary member of the platoon. And you're right that TG said it was the quickest way to get a female lead into 'theatre'.

I think the 'management' style is realistic (from my very limited experience). The banter is based on picking up on the 'stand out' feature of an individual - be that ginger / being welsh / female. In that environment its just taking the mick about whatever singles that person out. I said on the other thread I was in the TA for quite a few years and was only ever known as 'tokes' (short for Token Bird cos I was the only girl). The stilettos gag is just making fun of her.

But I also think she was on CJs radar from the start and hes challenging her to push her / find out more about her. He wants her to step up to the plate, to fit in and the speed dating line is slapping her down to make her take it seriously.

OK good as my word, composition 1: Stag in Watchtower. Try not to laugh too much.

mandy214 you do have a point about picking on "the stand out feature". There's a lot of ribbing and banter between them all I guess.

LOL SPOfficer!!!!! (Sorry didn't listen to you)

Mandy, thanks for sharing your experience. I think your observation about taking the mick out of the difference is really astute.

Need to keep eye on the posts as we get nearer to 1000 need to leave BA a message and link to next one

SPO I thought it was wearing some sort of ninja turtle bandana initially, but no, it's holding binoculars of course! Love it haha

Re; Cyrus Thatcher. I heard an interview on Jeremy Vine's show on Radio 2 the other week on the day that British Soldiers left Camp Bastion. I think his mother was interviewed with another mother whose son had died. They were discussing whether the war in Aghanistan had been worthwhile.

Also cherin I would have found a drama about another female in a front line role, such as a fighter pilot interesting. That would have challenged the viewer's ideas about female roles. I suppose from a drama point of view it might have been more difficult because of the physical remoteness from fighting on the ground - the same problem with women on board ships. We would also be dealing with someone far more educated than Molly so there probably wouldn't have been the scope to develop the character as much. I don't think I would have found it difficult to accept a woman in that role as long as she plays it in her own way without losing her female identity not by trying to be man like the Demi Moore model!

SPO that is brilliant, it may not have the artistic integrity of Cherins efforts, but it did just make me piss myself laughing! ( I know you said not to laugh, but surely that was your intention?)

Iloveblue, good luck with the procedure and hope you have a wonderful time enjoying an OGfest afterwards.

I think that my attitude/interest in the forces has changed since watching OG, before it was a sort of detached appreciation. Having grown to love the adorable annoying little shits under fives, the letters from Cyrus seem to have a resonance that I would not have felt before.