Game of thrones series 4: SPOILERS ALLOWED

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Book and tv series spoilers allowed.

I just posted on the other thread about the Brienne/Hound fight. I had seen a photo spoiler and was very concerned about it but it was wonderfully handled.
The moment Brienne realised who Arya was... I got goosebumps! I guess the Hound's 'death' was a bit more soap opera than the book where he just gets randomly injured because he's too drunk to fight properly but it worked well for me.

I also loved Jon and Mance as BFFs. The actors work really well together and I liked the way they immediately bonded against Stannis.

Tywin's death was strangely fun! He so deserved it but I loved the way he was so convinced there was no way Tyrion would dare harm him.... Until he did.
Finally I loved the choir music ending. The Stark tune is the best- they played some of it at Ygritte's funeral and then when Arya sailed off to Braavos before they moved on to the main theme. Gorgeous.

What are we going to watch now????? I might have to reread the books.

What are we going to watch now ? Oh no what will we do ? I have nearly finished my reread.
Boardwalk empire comes out soon, then the walking dead, any thing else ?

I don't like lady stone heart. I don't really see the point in the character so I can live without her being in it.

Hound can Brienne was amazing. And I had lots of Stannis feels when his army rode in formation towards Mance. Been waiting for that all season.

I would quite like to give the wildings a shake and say if your not going to bend the knee and you know abide by the laws of the land and all that then you're not coming in. Which is more important? Being free and being killed by wights and white walkers or saying "your grace" and living on the safe(r) side of the wall?

Vs. not can

Being free!!!!!

Seriously, Stannis. You've just shown up, you have no idea what the fuck is going on. These people barely recognised the King in the North and you're expected them to a. anoint you as 'The One True King' and b. crawl at your feet?
I swear Davos in the background was rolling his eyes and looking at Jon and mouthing 'sorry about that'.

I was never going to like this episode as I absolutely love the Hound. I was not expecting the fight with Brienne at all. It was fabulously choreographed, I loved how they went from knightly swordplay to all out brawling. Totally broke my hart when he was begging Arya to kill him.

I'm really disappointed they never brought in Coldhands. I can see why they didn't but still......Coldhands! He's awesome!

The lady stone heart stuff can do without being in the show IMO
Glad Tyrion was left with some love in his heart from Jaimie ...both such great characters and no way back from the book version.
Glad Bran's storyline was speeded up as was as dull as ditchwater

I was sad to see show Hound go actually and weirdly wanted him to respect Brienne yadda yadda Hollywood remake into both looking after Arya ( obvs all contrary to the book )
I hate the idea of whatever happens with her and Jamie as I adore them

I guess we don't know what will happen with Lady Stoneheart in future books so don't know if her omission from the show would be significant or not.

Coldhand's omission suggests he will be of no more significance in the books than he already has.

The show is definitely leaning to bring spoilery for book readers. All the stuff with Craster's baby and the white walkers. I don't mind though, it's another insight into the westerosi world.

Loved Brienne and the Hound. Brienne showed she is not just a girl making a good job of being a courtly knight but she can fight too. It did remind me of that sketch in the Fast Show 'the longest fight' but all extended fight scenes do now!

Arya off to Bravosi just felt massive.

I was a little nervous for Brienne at first, I thought she was just too honourable to fight the Hound, but she got properly stuck in! I can't look at him the same way since someone posted those porridge oat pictures the other day!

I agree with hildasmuriel about Lady Stoneheart. We're in no position to say which characters are essential, what with not knowing what's going to happen in the unwritten books.

Interesting that Varys seems to have got on to the ship with Tyrion. I wonder what's going to happen there?

I guess they want a Kings Landing sidekick for Tyrion to interact with. Varys is a fab character- I suppose they want to make she they get their money's worth with him.

Does anyone still think that Tywin was poisoned? He looked fine to me!

I think they will probably leave that out of the show Queen, it might not even be confirmed in the books. I

Yes the only hint in the books was his body decomposing abnormally quickly and being rather smelly despite 'work'.
It could have been added as a an added indignity to the character rather than the sign of an unusual death.

I think GRRM likes to fuck with us, there are so many prophecies, theories etc, I doubt we will find out if all of them are true.
I am starting to think we won't even find out if r +l = j.

I wonder if GGRM has ever read a fan theory and thought 'that's a good one I will nick that'.

Surely if r+l =j then that would be what all of this has been leading to? That's what I reckon anyway.

I think that r + l = j is the whole point of everything. After all, someone has to be sitting on that throne when the dust settles (or do they? Perhaps it'll break up back to the original 7 kingdoms). This of course assumes that Jon Snurr isn't dead or permanently warged into Ghost.

I never thought that Tywin had been poisoned and I'm now pretty sure that it wasn't the case. To me it's another book theory that the show has laid to rest, like the one about Jeyne Westerling being out there somewhere with the Blackfish and pregnant with Robb's heir. Which is a shame, because I liked that one

I don't know, I wonder if it's just a huge red herring and GRRM is going to hugely surprise us with something else. Or if it is confirmed but only to someone who later dies.
Don't get me wrong I am a huge crackpot theorist and I do believe that the song of ice and fire is Jon's story, but I do think anything could happen now, anything.

How did Jon know that Ned died for Stannis? Jon was already at the Wall and the news of his death came by raven, didn't it?

It would hardly have contained the info that Cersei wanted him dead because he'd found out about the children being Lannisters. Did I miss something - highly probable

Oh and I think the show is really deviating from the books now, so there still could be hope for Jeyne and young Ned

Maybe GGRM will decide he is a Republican at heart and there will be a mass revolution where the people rise up, overthrow all claimants to the throne and someone from Fleapit Bottom becomes an elected president.

Or the Braavosi own everything because of the amount of money lent by the bank so there is a bloodless coup and the 7 Kingdoms become an offshoot of Braavosi, actually not that implausible the last one, I certainly expect their investments will bring them power.

I agree that the r+l=j feels hugely significant. However, you can never second guess Game of Thrones. It could be revealed that J is that person only for him to die and the series end on the verge of a whole new war.

There are so many layers of who are the rightful heirs, just as there are in any monarchial system that really no one is the true heir. So Stannis is only on the basis that he is rightful heir to Robert. But Robert was only king through a rebellion. At some point the land must have belonged to the children so are they the rightful heirs? Fascinating really.

I quite like my Fleapit President idea....

Yes, that's exactly what I mean Hilda, he will probably slip on some of Ghosts wolf poo and impale himself on the Iron throne. Just when we think we have got the ending we want GRRM will pull a ....well a GRRM and totally fuck us.

I like your fleapit bottom president idea, hot pie for president ?

Oh and was anyone else seriously underwhelmed with bloodraven and the children in the cave ?
I don't think they did it justice at all, maybe they used all their cgi on the battle at the wall and Dany's dragons, but I was expecting a lot more. Especially from Bloodraven, he is only supposed to have one eye and it kind of made the " I have been watching with 1000 eyes and 1" a bit pointless. He'd is supposed to be part of the tree, but just looked like an old dude in a chair. < moans and grumbles>
I do realise I have become one of the annoying people who moans that" it didn't look like that in the hooks"

I was never quite convinced of R+L=J until I read an analysis of Ned's dream/memory about the fight at the Tower of Joy. The speech is basically Ned saying to the Kingsguard - I've looked for you in all these places where the actual royal family are/were and you weren't there. So the Kingsguard were not with the King, Queen, Prince Viserys, Princess Elia & her children or with Rhaegar and instead were guarding Ned's sister... I can't see any reason for that other than there was another member of the royal family there with Lyanna = Jon. Then Ned had to keep Jon hidden because if word got out he was Lyanna's then Robert would probably have had him killed as he is Rhaegar's child.

And yes, Bloodraven was not right at all. He should have looked like Bootstrap Bill from Pirates of the Carribbean but all tree-like instead of full of sealife. I was pleased with the "Thousand Eyes and One" comment though. I think it's one of those lines which signifies a Very Important Character.

I think I might have read that Pourquoi, was that on the westeros forum ?

I think Howland Reed is the only ( as far as we know on the record) person alive who can confirm r+ l = j. I know he should have some of Robb's army with him and his will leaving everything to Jon, hopefully we will see what he does with it in TWOW.