We hope it's not The Final Problem. Sherlock - 9pm Sunday - BBC1

[givemushypeasachance]

I thought it might be an idea to start a new thread for The Reichenbach Fall since The Hounds got its thread up to over 200 pages since last Sunday!

Non-spoilery vague preview description: "Sherlock and John lock horns with their old enemy in one final problem that tests loyalty and courage to their very limits. Sherlock must fight for his reputation, his sanity and his life. But is he all he claims to be?"

BBC link for The Reichenbach Fall

Take note of the later start time of 9pm. Get your deerstalkers and spiffy pocket magnifiers ready!

You are right, Prey. I've got nearly photographic memory, don't need to check.

Ah right, sorry thought I was onto summat there.

Have you ever seen the pilot episode of A Study in Pink TheRhubarb? Watched it last night and every so often I was thinking "I don't think TheRhubarb would like how they did that"

Don't ask me what parts though because I can't remember!

The pilot episode? No, is available via the BBC?
I'll have to watch it and get back to you. Do they veer too much from the original?

Trouble is scriptwriters can pretty much do what they like with Holmes, one playwriter wired Doyle once asked if he could "marry Holmes" and Doyle's reply was that he could marry him, kill him, do what he liked with him. Some people have taken that advice literally! What I liked about Gatiss and Moffat is that their devotion to the original stories shone through and they wanted to portray Holmes as he was in the books. Which they've managed, with a little artistic licence!

Oooh I just remembered something from the pilot that might relate to one of the books.

Don't know the name of it but isn't there a Holmes story that relates to the theft of something valuable from a church and Holmes is consulted by the bishop? Does the solution to that have something to do with being able to see the church from a window in a certain house? (Dead good at remembering stuff and explaining it aren't I?)

If so, in the pilot episode Sherlock is typing out various emails and he sends one along the lines of "if you can see the church from .... window, then .... is your man"?

Have I spotted an interesting Holmes fact TheRhubarb, have it?

That's obviously "have I" not "have it".

The pilot episode is an extra on the series one DVD. It's only 60 minutes rather than 90, so there are quite a few bits missing based purely on not enough time! The main ones I can recall:

• You don't see the victims at the beginning or a press coneference.
• Mycroft (as a red herring coming across as Moriarty in a "I'm Sherlock's archenemy" kind of way) is not in it at all. John leaves the house with the pink woman in and pretty much goes straight home, while Sherlock capers about on a roof looking mysterious and finds the pink case. Sherlock does send Mycroft an email though (when you eliminate the impssible...) so he exists in that world and probably would have turned up later.
• The taxi driver doesn't coerce Sherlock into going along with him during a drugs bust - Sherlock suspects a taxi driver pretty quickly (when they accost the US tourist in the longer version) and plays drunk to get closer to the driver while he's waiting outside the house. The taxi driver then sticks a needle in Sherlock's arm and drugs him, driving away back to 221B where the showdown happens.
• Along the way the driver asks if Sherlock has much experience with drugs and he says not lately, making dabbling with more than niccotine patches canon (for the pilot-verse anyway).
• Sally Donovan has pretty much the same character but is a uniformed officer and Anderson has a very weird beard.
• Sherlock spends the whole time wearing quite tight jeans not a suit and John's cane is a wooden stick not a crutch. 221B is also decorated quite differently and comes across as a bit more Victorian - dark reds, an open fire burning, etc.
• I don't think the on-screen text is done in quite the same way, and you really miss it!

I'm sure there are more differences to spot but that's all I can think of right now!

In The Hound of the Baskervilles a signal was sent from a certain window which could be seen from a spot on the moor.

I must admit, my memory fails to recal a story where Holmes was consulted by a bishop, although it is possible that one of the stories could have contained a church through a window. Not one of the more famous stories though. I shall rack my brains but so far, nothing is coming up.

Hmm, not sure they would put in clues in a pilot episode so I think we can safely discount the emails.

Holmes in jeans???? Never!

I remember a story about a bishop but the one I'm thinking of was where the old schoolfriend of Holmes (yes he had ONE friend at school), who was the son of a bishop (I think) invited him to stay in Norfolk and strange events followed. Probably not the same one...

Was it part of the Canon? The only adventure in Norfolk I can think of is The Dancing Men. No church and no old schoolfriend.

I completely did not realise on first viewing but he does actually wear jeans a couple of times in the Blind Banker and Great Game - someone capped specific scenes as proof! I think the coat really disguises things... here.

But the pilot jeans were much more obvious and less good. Maybe the whole outfit just came across as more casual? Not that it's not good for Mr BC to be dressed like this, but really the suit is much more him as Sherlock... here.

Old friend would Victor Trevor, wouldn't it? Haven't read the Gloria Scott in a long time but wikipedia says he was from Norfolk - not sure about his father being a bishop though...

Of course mushy! The Gloria Scott! I wish I had wiki-ed that info now, I was relying on my rusty Sherlockian knowledge. But still no church from a window or bishop. However signalling from windows does feature quite a bit in many stories, including what you can see from which window etc so it's still possible that you have it right.

Bollocks. I've ballsed it up again.

I've just been googling when I should be working to try to find the name of the story. It's The Trinity Vicarage Larceny. It is a Sherlock Holmes story but it's only based on the works of ACD and not actually one of his. Bollocks. Bollocks. Bollocks.

And I thought I'd spotted something interesting

Messers Moffat and Gatiss have said several times that they consider everything canon - taking inspiration from various films and adaptations - so I wouldn't be too hard on yourself LetUsPrey!

There have been a lot of excellent stories written by other people but based in the world of the original ACD works...

Prey - I did suspect it might be a pastiche (or pasty) as there are so very many of them about, which is why the original works are referred to as The Canon. At least you didn't get it mixed up with an Agatha Christie novel this time!

I'm not a huge pasty fan. Why settle for mince when you can have steak?

I like a nice spag bol.

I grew up enjoying Star Trek books as a teenager which are essentially the same thing since they're written by people who are primarily fans rather than creators, and then fanfiction online too; fair enough there is a lot of dross out there but it's great for "what ifs" and for going further into the aspects of characters and stories that you particularly enjoy.

The Bible of canon remains untouchable, but it's nice to take the characters out to play somewhere new now and again too.

True mushy, but all so often with the pasties I read, the authors tried very hard to be Doyle and that's impossible. You cannot become Conan Doyle. What Moffat and Gatiss have done, taking Holmes out of Victorian London and into the 21st century is a huge gamble and yes, the dymanics of the characters are bound to be different - they certainly look liberties with Mycroft! But it works because they are not trying to be Doyle, they are writing in their own style and that makes a huge difference.

Must have misremembered then, if the story with the old friend in Norfolk is the 'Gloria Scott' one. I somehow thought there was a clerical element to that story, but clearly got in a muddle!

I have this evening made a careful study (hic!) and the 'Sherlock Holmes, 221B Baker Street' wink in A Study In Pink is better in the pilot than the first episode.

There is more riding crop action in the episode though.

Now please excuse me for the night, watching it has made me come over all unnecessary and DH is at a loose end. [bgrin]

Sorry to suddenly come in on this but......I have a clue! When Sherlock is looking at his computer screen, a website for St Aldate's prep school in Surrey is on it and in the tombstone scene Mrs Hudson says loudly that she is thinking of sending Sherlocks equipment all boxed up 'to a school'. Agree with the bouncy ball thing.

Also, I think Sherlock worked out how crazy Moriarty was, that he would therefore kill himself, and it was Moriarty's body which was on the pavement in Sherlock's coat which was switched by the homeless disguised as passers by and hospital paramedics. Sherlock landed on the laundry truck. He kept Watson talking in the same spot so the assassin on the stairs wouldn't kill him and so that the cyclist could push him out of the way. Watson knows Sherlock isn't dead but he doesn't know if he is going to see him again.

I do think this Sherlock/Watson pair is an absolute classic, and Moriarty is one of the best evil villains ever!

I think Moffat and Gatiss have done a great job - it is believable, yet not so, right down to Speedy's cafe. It is so much better than Dr Who because it is all just on the edge of reality.