We hope it's not The Final Problem. Sherlock - 9pm Sunday - BBC1

[givemushypeasachance]

I thought it might be an idea to start a new thread for The Reichenbach Fall since The Hounds got its thread up to over 200 pages since last Sunday!

Non-spoilery vague preview description: "Sherlock and John lock horns with their old enemy in one final problem that tests loyalty and courage to their very limits. Sherlock must fight for his reputation, his sanity and his life. But is he all he claims to be?"

BBC link for The Reichenbach Fall

Take note of the later start time of 9pm. Get your deerstalkers and spiffy pocket magnifiers ready!

I do love those little things you spot when watching something again for the umpteenth time

No sign of my Sherlock box set in today's post I'd hoped it would be here do I could watch the pilot tonight [sulks]

frankie3 - And I wonder who made the phone call to Watson.

It was paramedics saying she was shot. Molly was in on everything and got a colleague to make the call to get Watson away from the scene whilst the lorry was prepared.

AntlersInAllOfMyDecorating - Can someone explain why Sherlock got down from the ledge the first time?

He looked down and saw a queue of busses at the bus stop where he would land. He had to play for time until the lorry came so he asked for a moment of privacy, not realising that JM was about to to play his trump card.

LetUsPrey - just before he jumped Sherlock threw his 'phone away.

Why would he need his phone? The last thing he wants after his death is for an erotic text message alert to reveal his presence at an inopportune moment.

The third handshake? Could he have been shaking hands with himself on the rooftop with his hands behind his back?

Watson's final position - eyes fixed on me - is to provide a believable witness who sees only what he is meant to see. All the others who materialise in the empty street and the cyclist are from the homeless network who have been called to obscure the events and prevent anything other than a quick pulse-take before the body is whisked away. No time for the classic final tearful clutch of a bloodied face as a last embrace between SH and DrW.

They (SH & JM) had both pre-planned their own fake deaths in an effort to spur the other to kill himself but neither realises that the other is still alive.

A good starting point for a new series.

In the story A Scandal in Bohemia, Holmes is in disguise and uses wet paint to stimulate blood gushing from his head when he falls down just outside Irene Adler's carriage.

So it's very very possible that they had him use a blood pack here that he could easily have obtained from Molly.

It's been in all the papers over the weekend and doing my head in. So yesterday we took the kids to the cinema and I thought it would be nice to be totally distracted. We saw War Horse and it was all doing fine until bloody Sherlock Holmes popped up!

Also - I let the kids watch the Hound of the Baskervilles as it wasn't too scary I don't think for them (the BBC version, the Jeremy Brett version is far scarier) and dd afterwards said to me; "It was funny when Watson found out what those lights were on the moor" I think back and suddenly panic when I remember that bit of the film where he comes across a couple humping in a car with lots of other people looking on. I'd completely forgotten about it. "Was it funny?" I asked.
"Yes, when he thought they were sending a signal but they were just trying to fix their car, that's why the car was rocking up and down"

Bless her, still innocent at 11

gemista - would he have confided so much in Molly? Would she have been able to go through with it knowing how gutted Watson was? That's what is bothering me, he trusted Molly but not Watson or Lestrade? And remember, she'd dated Moriarty 3 times. She was hardly Miss Subtle at the best of times. He might have procured her help, but surely she too would have to think he was dead?

I think the key with Molly was that no one really thought about her much. Moriarty had disregarded her when threatening to kill Sherlock's friends, so why would anyone else bother with her?

Yes she's a bit of a wet blanket, but she's smart (wouldn't have that job if she wasn't) and the man she loves, albeit unrequited, asked for her help.

She dumped Moriarty. That's a turn up.

Whoop whoop! I've had my "order dispatched" email from Amazon for my Blu-Ray box set . Though I'm a cheapskate and opted for Free Delivery rather than pay for it to be here next day

LetUsPrey The Cluedo board has been bothering me since I saw it - it wasn't there in Series 1.

Also the argument Sherlock and John had about the rules - something about the murderer can't also be the victim. Can't help feeling it was significant to the final scenes.

Suicide. Could be a definition of suicide?

I just assumed the Cluedo board had been thrown there in a "fit of pique" by Sherlock after the last time he and Watson played it, hence Watson's comments that he wasn't playing Cluedo with Sherlock again.

Hadn't put any deeper meaning into it but then I'm a simple soul.

I will, however, be able to check this at my leisure as my Sherlock box set has arrived!!

I'm going back to the Hansel and Gretel thing. Hansel is out, Gretel shoves the witch into the oven to save her own life.

If you decide Hansel is Watson, Sherlock is Gretel and Moriarty is the Witch (burned gingerbread man etc etc) Then Sherlock MUST shove Moriarty off the roof to save himself, as Watson watches from a distance. It's the only way the parallel works.

I also have a theory about the rubbish van. Instead of jumping into it, couldn't it have been both a cover for the landing zone and exactly what it is, a rubbish truck. So Molly or other helpers could have hidden in or behind it and put into place some kind of landing mat, which was then thrown away into the truck as it departed.

I'm not 100% on the body switch arrangement though. But the body HAS to be Moriarty if Hansel and Gretel meand anything. I think.

I also think we have to accept that both Moriarty and Sherlock knew in advance what was going to happen on the roof. Only Moriarty was going for Sherlock's actual death of course.

But wouldn't the sniper who was going to shoot Watson be able to see all this?

Depends on his vantage point. He got a good view of Watson (how did he know Watson would be there?) but not necessarily of the top of the building.

Yes, exactly how did he know that Watson would jump back into the cab and get out right there, outside St Bart's? They weren't at the front entrance were they? Someone set that up, someone who wanted Watson there and the sniper to see Holmes die.

I am in love with Moriarty.

As you were.

just plonking myself back onto this thread as it dropped off threads i'm on

Moriarty arranged the phone call to Watson and he knew there would be enough time for him to go and come back (because as soon as he found out Mrs H was alive he would be straight back knowing it was a trap) and either
a) witness Holmes jump/aftermath of jump
or
b) Holmes would refuse and Moriarty would up the ante by having Watson shot if Holmes really refused to jump

So the sniper was in the right place

Noooo, Holmes arranged the phone call because he texted Moriarty just afterwards and asked him to come and play on the rooftop of St.Barts, then Moriarty congratulated Holmes on his choice of venue. Plus if they are sticking to the original story, it is Holmes who sends Watson off so that he can have his final confrontation with Moriarty.

Holmes or Mycroft must have set the sniper up when they set Moriarty up, so they knew that everyone would be convinced Holmes was dead.

I also quite fancy Moriarty shrinkingnora, it must be his bad boy persona. And that lovely Irish accent! He reminded me of a cheeky chappie when he did that little routine on the rooftop calling Holmes a doofus.
He's nowt like the Moriarty in the books, which is just as well as being bad would never have been so sexy without him!

I've just had a very pleasant 90 minutes of watching Scandal with the commentary from the series 2 DVD. It had Mark Gatiss, Steven Moffat, Sue Vertue on the production side as well as Benedict Cumberbatch and Lara Pulver, and it was a very fun listen with lots of trivia chipped in.

Hound has a commentary too with Russell Tovey, Steven Moffat, Mark Gatiss and Sue Vertue but sadly there's none for the Fall; probably for the best since they don't want to give away any more clues unintentionally and it would be difficult to listen to without getting sucked into the drama!

There's a 20 minute behind-the-scenes doc which was good as well; watching them set up the transition from Irene's bedroom to the field with the dead hiker and then back to Sherlock in bed was amazing. They had a whole false wall trundled down to this random Welsh field by a JCB and a freaky pneumatic bed and all sorts - it's so easy to assume CGI these days but there's a lot more to it than that!

well i still think the sniper was in the right place!

If Holmes arranged for Watson to get the cool then
a) Moriarty would have assumed Watson would be in the vicinity of Holmes so the sniper would be close to St Barts
b) Holmes needs watson to verify his death so factors in his journey times so he is back in time

I'm now listening to the Hound commentary and five minutes in, Russell Tovey is annoying me already. He's so far asked Steven and Mark "how many Sherlock Holmes books were there?", "is your version based mostly on the novels?", "have you read all the stories?" (sounding completely amazed and disbelieving when they say yes, several times, and this was when they were aged eight or nine, and anyway wouldn't you expect the creators and writers of an updated series to have read the source material at least once) and is generally coming across like someone who has less than no clue about Sherlock Holmes at all. Which is fine, but I was hoping for a slightly higher level of discussion than Sherlock Holmes for Beginners! Hopefully he'll either be quiet and let the grown ups talk or they'll move onto talking about the production soon...

I was wondering if the Cluedo "victim can't have been the murderer" was important, especially as the board was suddenly so visible. There was, however, no "whodunit?" as everyone accepted Sherlock jumped and it looked like Moriarty killed himself.

Think it was more a joke, though hard to believe Watson and Sherlock playing Cluedo at all Apart from anything else, it's pretty rubbish with 2 players, unless they got Mrs Hudson in.

Watched the pilot version of A Study in Pink last night. As a standalone programme, it was good but in comparison to the programme and series it became, not so good but I suppose that's one of the ideas of a pilot.

I know it's a 21st century update but I don't think Sherlock should be wearing jeans.

I'm going to have to wait for DH to go out to watch the others, especially with commentary. He's not that big a fan.

Not got the time to do this - but Moriarty shot himself with his left hand right? So that makes him left-handed does it? Can someone check when he has tea at Baker Street which hand he uses?
Because when Holmes is talking to Watson via phone on the ledge, the phone is in his left hand and Holmes is right handed.

Not sure about that TheRhubarb. When Moriarty is drumming on his knee with his fingers, it's his left hand and I'm fairly sure he's carving the apple with the knife in his left hand too, and he has the cup in his left hand.

As far as the rooftop scene is concerned, I'm trying to picture it in my head and I think (although probably wrong) that Holmes has the 'phone in his right hand and throws it to the right. Does he not reach out to Watson to tell him to stay where he is with his left hand?

Can't access YouTube at work and don't have 3G on my iPod Touch so can't check.