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We hope it's not The Final Problem. Sherlock - 9pm Sunday - BBC1

648 replies

givemushypeasachance · 15/01/2012 10:56

I thought it might be an idea to start a new thread for The Reichenbach Fall since The Hounds got its thread up to over 200 pages since last Sunday!

Non-spoilery vague preview description: "Sherlock and John lock horns with their old enemy in one final problem that tests loyalty and courage to their very limits. Sherlock must fight for his reputation, his sanity and his life. But is he all he claims to be?"

BBC link for The Reichenbach Fall

Take note of the later start time of 9pm. Get your deerstalkers and spiffy pocket magnifiers ready!

OP posts:
CaveMum · 19/01/2012 10:06

I thought Watson was drugged in Baskerville. I'm sure they said something about leaky pipes in the lab.

Anyway, I was just being contrary by suggesting Moriarty was still alive. I really can't see how you can get round the fact he put a gun in his mouth!

I think we need a Moffat/Gattis webchat to try and fail to get some answers! I can't wait another 12+ months!!!!

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 10:08

Not all the clues are in the last 20 minutes.

That Moriarty has a Holmes disguise - evident by girl's screams.
The danger the press pose to Holmes - right at the beginning during his convo with Watson.
"I O U" or is it "I Own You"?
Plenty of references to tricks and trickery and the concept of suggestibility was first toyed with in the Hound of the Baskervilles.
Plus the importance of Molly of course.
Them up on the rooftop confirms just the idea that Moriarty is Holmes and Holmes is Moriarty.

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 10:10

No Watson was not drugged. Holmes thought he had drugged him by putting sugar in his tea, but that wasn't it. Holmes then suggested to Watson that it might have been the leaky pipes before Watson susses that actually, it was Holmes all along. Watson was in full control of all his faculties and yet still was able to see what he was lead to believe was in that room with him. How much more suggestible will he be in shock and with concussion?

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 10:11

led

diddl · 19/01/2012 10:39

I still think it´s Holmes on the ground-how could he be sure that Moriarty hadn´t placed someone near to have a look at the body?

Actually, how did he know that Moriarty would even call his men off in any eventuality?

In the book, isn´t Holmes fall broken by a ledge?

Also, isn´t there a story in which he pretends to be dead?

RustyBear · 19/01/2012 10:48

MyCats/Rhubarb - see my post at Mon 16-Jan-12 00:08:16

It was a 60's series, not a 50's film...

MyCatsHaveOpposableThumbs · 19/01/2012 10:52

The Moriaty character as it was written and acted reminded me so much of John Sim's Master in Dr Who - rather ordinary looking (is it too harsh to say a little short & weedy?) and teetering on the edge of hysterical madness. Far more chilling than an urbane super-crook would have been! Great writing and acting!

Rhubarb, apparently it's the Diogenes club member who looks scandalised when Watson is asking for Mycroft - I think he has a small speaking part; apparently he's listed in the credits.

HarrietJones · 19/01/2012 11:04

Mycats- I said that to dh about the acting being like John Simms master.?

Was the IOU relevant other than a 'stalking' plot?

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 11:07

Diddl, yes in the book Holmes was saved by a ledge. And I think the story you are referring to is The Dying Detective.

He knew that if he was dead, there would be no point in killing Watson, Hudson and Lestrade. These were contract killers, the contract was fulfilled.

It may well be Holmes' body on the floor, he did jump after all. But his fall was probably also broken (they like to try to be true to the books) by something that was pre-arranged (the truck?). It was done quickly, with the bystanders shielding what was going on and with Watson on the ground.

In the mortuary a body swap was arranged so that Moriarty became Holmes.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the Holmes disguise, I'm sure there must have been one hence the little girl's screams and also in the books, Holmes is a master of disguise and many stories feature him or criminals in disguise - The Yellow Face, The Man with the Twisted Lip, The Empty House and even in The Final Problem, Holmes had been in disguise to meet Watson on the train.

There has to be a disguise in this story somewhere.

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 11:09

Harriet - I think the IOU is I Own You.

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 11:30

There - as Holmes looks down, there is a clearly marked square on the pavement right at the side of what looks like a bus. Then just after he falls and Watson rounds the corner to see the body (which means that he could not have seen the body hit the ground) we see a truck parked where the bus was, right at the side of the marked square. The truck then drives away as people rush to the body. The truck is where Holmes actually landed.

LetUsPrey · 19/01/2012 12:35

Fact here for you TheRhubard: You're the bestest, most knowledgeable Sherlock expert in the whole wide world.

I will be continuing with my re-watch and note-taking tonight. The trial's finished, Moriarty's been round for tea and I think that's where I stopped it.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 19/01/2012 12:41

I mentioned this upthread, but if that clip of Benedict dancing is the 'Thriller' one, it's a private video that was leaked by someone hacking an online account belonging to his ex. She was mortified, as of course anyone would be, and has as a result made herself more private on Twitter, which is a bit of a sad loss as she was very entertaining. Sorry to get all cats-bum-mouth about it, but I really don't think it's appropriate to still be circulating that. It was never intended for public consumption and it's not very nice to Benedict, or his ex, or anyone else who appears in it.

Thanks to CaveMum et al for all the legit links to Benedict yumminess, though Smile

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 12:58

Prey - ok ok, black mark removed. Grin

LadyClarice, hmm. Just why would anyone hack her online account to get access to that video? Did they also get her bank details and access to emails? That's what they usually hack for. And I assume that the original person who put the video online was reported to the police, as it stands to reason that they are or they know, the hacker.

It's more likely that she shared the video with someone who then put it online without her permission.

But in any case, it's hardly a damaging clip.

CaveMum · 19/01/2012 13:07

Journalists hack people's accounts for pictures/videos quite frequently. I know of someone (friend of a friend) who had her Facebook account hacked and the pictures of her baby son then appeared in the papers after he was attacked by a dog.

All in all, it is evidently a private video and not meant for public consumption.

LetUsPrey · 19/01/2012 13:08

Phew! Thanks Rhubarb.

I assume those of who are interested have seen the video set to Katy Perry's song ET with various clips of the lush Mr Cumberbatch? Driving into work this morning, that song comes on the radio. I nearly had to pull over because images from the video flashed into my head! (like they're not there constantly anyway)

So, if you saw a woman driving a small red car this morning, grinning like a lunatic and singing along to ET, that was me!

What do you think I should be focusing on with the re-watch? I've written loads of stuff down already Blush, even things like the reporters' names from the papers and the reference number from the security camera when Moriarty's at the Tower.

LetUsPrey · 19/01/2012 13:09

those of us who are interested

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 13:18

CaveMum - so the video was posted online somewhere like a Facebook account? I'm guessing it must have been as it's bloody hard to hack into someone's harddrive, not to mention very very illegal. Whereas it's much easier to hack into facebook, esp if privacy settings are not very tight. Still, whoever first put it on YouTube should have been traced at the very least. And can't she ask YouTube to take the videos down?

Prey - erm, I'd just kinda look out for clues not just sight ones, but listen to what he says. How many times have you seen it now? Do you not just want to settle down with a cup of tea and a nice SH story from the book?

LetUsPrey · 19/01/2012 13:23

Only watched it once in full. Couldn't relax at all whilst watching it so probably missed loads. Watched the jump scene again to have a quick discussion with DH about it - after I'd finished doing my He's Not Dead Happy Dance.

Why did Sherlock say to Moriarty he doesn't like riddles?

I'm waiting for my books coming - they were on an offer in the Radio Times. I'll read those and take it from there.

SnowieBear · 19/01/2012 13:33

May I wade in?

I think Sherlock and Moriarty's little "tea party" is much more significant than anyone is giving it credit for. If you think back to the dialogue, Moriarty plainly tells Sherlock how he's going to "burn the heart of you", tells him he's told him, and tells him what will happen: the fall.

He even says something along the lines of falling being like flying, but with a more permanent destination. All the visual and verbal clues re: angels and Sherlock being "on the side of the angels" - well, they fly, don't they?

OK, it's not an explanation (yet!), I'm still working on it.

But it is Sherlock who falls, the disguise/mask that may have been used in the kidnap is just a red-herring insofar as the fall goes. It plays a part in planting doubt into the police team and Lestrade, end of.

Sherlock fall is broken by something enough to cause him injury but not kill him. The pulse is neither here not there either - a full fall from that height will either smash your head in or cause significant internal damage, he's toast, pulse or no pulse. Why taken away in a stretcher so quickly? Well, they are outside St Barts, wheeling him in for medical attention seems sensible, he's not being taken away covered over, is he?

The fall as witnessed by Watson, despite the accident with the bike, is fluid. My guess is he fell onto truck and flung himself onto floor from there straight away - he can cope with hurting himself, plus has blood pack (hands behind back earlier?) to egg it on. Molly is needed to certify death, swap bodies, nurse to health, provide hidey-hole.

Boy, better stop now and go back to work!

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 13:34

I watched it again last night with the kids (it was on too late for them first time). I'm reading the stories to dd, she's just at the age to appreciate them and she's really getting into them.

I don't normally rate TV depictions but I like this series, I like the cleverness. However I've seen it now and have my theories. I'm sure there's loads I've missed (who said that the binary code spelled out IOU?) but I don't tend to analyse it all too closely, I just enjoy it all for what it is.

That's why I left The Northern Musgraves (a Sherlock Holmes society) as they took themselves way too seriously and were quick to jump on any mistake or inaccuracy. This is the most indepth I've been about anything on telly. It is fun though!

TheRhubarb · 19/01/2012 13:40

SnowieBear - the fall could have two meanings. A literal fall and a fall from grace.

I'm not sure Watson would have seen the fall as he doesn't see Sherlock's body until he rounds the corner. He certainly didn't see the impact as we viewers did, that was purely for us to clarify in our minds, that Holmes is dead.

Not sure if Moriarty would have planned the fall from the building from the beginning as it was Holmes' idea to meet on the roof. Moriarty even thanked him for providing such a suitable location.

It's a good a theory as anyone's though and I guess we'll just have to wait until next year when all will be revealed.

SnowieBear · 19/01/2012 13:48

It's great fun trying to work it out though! Agree with the two meanings of fall, especially in connection with angels. In order to survive, Sherlock plans his fall, it all goes into a virtuous circle.

I think Watson sees the fall, but not the impact, that's why it works and why Sherlock takes such pains positioning him and insisting "keep looking at me" (why? what's going on at street level Watson shouldn't see?)

Hats off to you, Rhubarb, and your knowledge and love of all things Sherlock!

diddl · 19/01/2012 13:50

"why? what's going on at street level Watson shouldn't see?"

Something for a soft landing??!!

SnowieBear · 19/01/2012 13:54

Elementary.

Sorry, couldn't help myself Grin.

Or maybe he didn't want John to later doubt what had happened.