We hope it's not The Final Problem. Sherlock - 9pm Sunday - BBC1

[givemushypeasachance]

I thought it might be an idea to start a new thread for The Reichenbach Fall since The Hounds got its thread up to over 200 pages since last Sunday!

Non-spoilery vague preview description: "Sherlock and John lock horns with their old enemy in one final problem that tests loyalty and courage to their very limits. Sherlock must fight for his reputation, his sanity and his life. But is he all he claims to be?"

BBC link for The Reichenbach Fall

Take note of the later start time of 9pm. Get your deerstalkers and spiffy pocket magnifiers ready!

CaveMum - you know when you mentioned YouTube, did you mean something like ?

I think it is a Good Thing that YouTube is blocked at my office. I'd either get no work done or get the sack.

[melts]

How did Mrs Hudsons killer know not to shoot her?

Also about 1.18 ish in on the iplayer, when John turns up in the taxi. There is a low roof building with a flat grey roof between him and sherlock. John runs round it and says he coming in. Sherlock says no and asks him to go back, so he ends up round the other side of it.

You see the wall of it again when John goes to walk forward and Sherlock says stay exactly where you are

When Sherlock jumps we see him literally fall all the way down.

But John can't see the whole jump.

I still think that this tale is from Johns eyes. He expected to see sherlock on the floor.

Would they cart someone off so quickly from outside a hospital pavement? Would they declare someone dead so quickly and just plonk him on a trolly and wheel them away within 1 minute?

"Would they cart someone off so quickly from outside a hospital pavement? Would they declare someone dead so quickly and just plonk him on a trolly and wheel them away within 1 minute?"

Yes, because it´s Sherlock & it´s all been set up by him.

Was anyone else a fan of the Jeremy Brett Holmes in the 80's? I cried at the final problem as I looooved Jeremy Brett. Pretty sure that if JB were still alive he would have been offered a cameo too. Be interesting to watch those old episodes now, all played very straight. No bromance, no iPhones, no dizzy editing, no modern day transposition (sp)
Still as much as I adored JB, I didn't want to shag him. BC on the other hand...

The JB ones are on atm.

I watched A Scandal in Bohemia last night.

Exactly diddl if it wasn't - then the body wouldn't of been cleared away so quickly

Now I have to watch the 3 again too, to see if I get any of the plot bombs.

Adaptations can be annoyingly bad but it occurs to me that I love the books, loved Basil Rathbone, JB and the new Sherlock series.

Haven't seen the Robert Downey films, though. Can't get "He's American and Jude Law, yuck" out of my head.

Prey - you forget I'm on the same thread as you and so saw that Basil Rathbone story too, I even commented on it! Try harder!

MadameOvary - yes I did!

Mushy - I thought you were going to be a huge die-hard fan yourself but now you've just made me look a little odd!

Right. 8yr old ds has solved it for us. I knew there was a reason I called that boy Sherlock (and btw he has been telling all his friends about his unusual middle name and they all love it!)

Holmes asks Molly for help but we don't see how she helps him. He tells her he has to die. That means that she has to confirm that the body she examines in the morgue is Sherlock's. That's the favour.

On the rooftop, Sherlock told Moriarty "I am you" and this was repeated a few times. Of course Moriarty had a Holmes disguise - hence the girl screaming. Holmes knew this, how could he not know?

Just after Holmes fell, we see the truck that was parked there, drive off. Watson has been knocked out - how long for? Long enough for Moriarty's body, complete with Holmes disguise, has been laid out on the pavement - hence also the head wound. The body is then taken into the mortuary and is pronounced as that of Holmes by Molly. The funeral would have taken place etc but Moriarty would be in the grave, not Holmes.

Watson had to see Holmes die, he was the key witness. He was carefully positioned, the cyclist was planned. If Watson hadn't seen Holmes die then all three; Watson, Mrs Hudson and Lestrade would have been killed. As at Reichenbach Falls, Holmes had to let Watson believe he was dead or else Moriarty's henchmen would have come to finish him off and Watson himself would have been in danger.

Holmes puts his hands behind his back, he is concealing something. Perhaps the rubber ball that would stop his pulse? Perhaps that in itself was a signal?

There are continual references to illusion and magic tricks, the Make Believe art on the reporter's wall, the fact that the newspapers "tell the truth" - all of it was a big con to convince people of Holmes' death.

And did you note down the music Moriarty was playing on the rooftop? "Stayin' Alive" which is just what Holmes did.

Have I missed 'owt?

Credit to ds who spotted that they kept talking about Moriarty being Holmes on the rooftop. He had it sussed.

TheRhubarb, Genius thinking.

Who gives the instruction to Moriarty's henchmen to stand down if Moriarty is dead?

The main henchman has his sights on Watson. You can see through the aim that he is watching him. When he is convinced that Holmes is dead and Watson's reaction confirms it, he no doubt communicates with the other two that they can also stand down.

That would explain all the "I am you" stuff I didn't understand.

Moriarty would have alerted a henchman to go to St Bart's - with the instruction that if he saw Sherlock die or dead, he should call off the others?

How did sherlock know Moriarty would kill himself - or would sherlock have killed him if he hadn't of shot himself.

and I get you Rhubarb about it being Moriarty etc but how would they have got the body down so quickly? Could molly the accomplice lift a complete dead weight like that and fling it off the side?

Or could it be a completely different body with the sherlock disguise on? one from the morgue, dressed, mask on and ready to go?

If it´s Moriarty´s body, why would Holmes need to stop his pulse?

Oh God I'll have to watch it all again.

Furball - we don't know how long Watson was unconscious for, long enough perhaps not to see the second body being hurled off the roof?

Remember whose idea it was to meet on the roof? This was well planned.
Yes Holmes would have guessed that Moriarty would kill himself - which is why he said "As long as you're alive I've got you" or words to that effect. Moriarty could not live without Holmes, he had nothing left to live for and nothing to lose. Life would be meaningless. He felt he had won so he could die in triumph. Of course he would have watched Holmes jump, but Holmes forced his hand in gloating that his friends were safe as long as he had Moriarty.

Hmm good point. The rubber ball theory is just a theory and could have nothing to do with the plot. Or they could indeed have swapped to ensure that Watson was fully fooled. But in any case, Moriarty's body was never recovered which leads you to the conclusion that Moriarty was buried and Holmes was not.

A bit off message, but I saw in the paper today that one of the actors in the stuffy, silent gentlemen's club is 92 and actually played Holmes in a 1950's film... nice touch from Moffatt and Gatiss!

BUT, just to be awkward [evil ], if Moriarty isn't really dead (still a possibility) then there would be no body to be discovered, hence no reference to him being dead!

Thanks to cavemum I've done bugger all for 2 days except look at Mr Sherlock clips on You Tube.

MyCats, really? Do you know which one it is? It can't be good old Basil, hmmmmmmm..........

CaveMum, if the writers intend to stick to the original story, which I believe they will, then Moriary is real and is dead. Watch the rooftoop scene again, how Moriarty goes on about how bored he is of life, how meaningless it is esp now that he has found out that Holmes is 'ordinary' and he has already beaten him. Moriarty has tired of life, he cannot live without his nemesis. Yet Holmes can certainly live without him. But it suits Holmes to disappear for a while, his popularity got too much - remember Watson warning him to lay low in the beginning of the episode. He told Holmes that the Press can big you up so that you fall all the harder.

Holmes knows that to get back to being who he was, he needs to disappear. His fame and the press have all got too much for him to handle and provide a huge distraction. So dying not only saves his friends but allows him the time to be anonymous once more.

I did wonder if Holmes was so disorientated because he was 'drugged' somehow by the cyclist (like the tip of the umbrella having poison on or something)

Why do you think all the clues are concentrated in the twenty minutes on/off the roof? That's not how ACD wrote and it's certainly not how these script writers wrote?! I'm convinced that subtle things much earlier in the episode or indeed the series will be important, if only we could make the connection.

"Stayin' Alive" is not just a song on Moriarty's phone, it's the ringtone, possibly the individual ringtone, for Irene Adler. Remember she's not dead and at the end of Scandal in Belgravia SH still believes that she was his equal.

Nope, just concussed and in shock, therefore highly suggestible - remember the Hound? Holmes already knew he could trick Watson into seeing things that were not there without the need for drugs, just a little trickery