Doctor Who Series 6 part 2 - the ganger thread

[RustyBear]

Old thread's getting full, so here's a nice new acid-resistant one...

has he? oh what a shame, i love them.

Ah, but the cast credit is for The Silent.

Just had a thought. Why did River slap the doctor in the cafe after he died? And was that the 1000+ year old doctor, now taken out of the teselecta?

I just watched confidential and I just love the filming of the kiss - such chemistry between those two actors! Just loved that bit.

The doctor in the cafe would have been the normal 900 year old doctor, invited by the 1100 year old doctor - presumably River slapped him to maintain the fiction that she didn't know what had happened.

just watched it again - actually the BBC subtitles refer first to The Silence and then the Doctor referee to 'the Creatures that lead The Silence' - and afterwards the creatures are referred to as The Silents

Well I accept Wikipedia is not the most scientific source! And yours has a bit more authority to it

Perhaps the order is the Silence but an individual member is a Silent?

Well I thought it was a bit odd Aitch because he was talking as if it was a new thing to do whereas really there has always been one - right from Bad Wolf (and I think often in the old seasons too) although the one this series has been more distracting, I think (eg the whole why are Rory and Amy messing about and not looking for Melody discussions, which incidentally I think Amy summed up quite well last night).

sorry, nope. explain the doctors again. i am being thick. was the slapped doc the tesselecter doc without a hat?

i am sure that bad wolf was an afterthought, according to RTD, but yes, it's not a new thing, is it?

Ha - sorry x-posted Rusty.

I also thought the same about the slap - rule number one. The Doctor lies and so does River. "Spoilers"

The 1100 old doctor (inside the teselector wearing the Stetson) floated off in the burning boat after being 'killed' and then presumably hopped out of the charred teselector, (which presumably was not too damaged to return him to his proper size) and went back to his version of the TARDIS before returning Dorium's head to the cave of skulls. Amy River and Rory went back to the cafe which incidentally is this one on Cardiff Bay, not in Utah at all, and met the 900 year old Doctor. They then, as SoupDragon says, presumably went through the whole 1969 thing with River knowing what had happened until the Doctor dropped off Amy and Rory and presumably went off for a couple of hundred years until it was 'time' to die. At some point during this time he revisited Craig, found the Dalek, played the chess game, found Dorium etc and set up the Teselecta.

But in the timeline where River refuses to kill the Doctor, because she doesn't know he's in the teselecta, we get the whole frozen time/eyepatch/pyramid thing. This timeline disappears once the Doctor persuades River to shoot the Teselecta, but because Amy grew up by the crack, she can remember alternative timelines - in the frozen time she remembered the real time, and back in the real line, she remembers the pyramid, and killing Madame Kovarian...

I think.

yyy i am sure you are right. thank GOD you are here.

Rusty - fantastic! I absolutely follow that and it makes sense. If the whole pyramids thing hasn't happened and has been wiped out though, does that mean the Doctor and River aren't married, and Amy is therefore not the Doctor's MIL after all?

Rusty, thank you. We watched it again last night. I thought it would be like going back to a jigsaw puzzle (curses dd'd friend for the present of the puppies one) where you're sure this time you'll see what goes where.
And can't.

If time stopped, why wasn't everything just stuck in that minute, Groundhog Day style? Why the mixed-up timey things? Brilliant though that was, loved the Roman soldier at the traffic lights in a chariot.

Thought you guys might like this:

Moffat Meme

MaidOiLarfTiggaxx

Moffat pointed out in Confidential that since the Doctor didn't whisper his name to River after all, and that's presumably an important bit of the ceremony then they probably aren't really married.

dawntigga - I liked that!

Look who is in the Christmas Special! www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/dw/news/bulletin_110920_01/Christmas_Special_The_Stars

Time being 'frozen' is just a sort of shorthand really, it's only really a valid image if time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but as from a non-linear, non- subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wobbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff, then instead of time being stopped at one point on a line, it's more like someone's bundled the whole big ball up and stuffed it in a box, and everyone on Earth is in that box.

If you actually start thinking about the inconsistencies in the view of life in that box that we got in that episode, you'd go nuts, especially if you're a historian like me, so I find it easier to see it as a representation of that reality, a bit like the tube map is a representation of the reality of the Underground system.

Actually, what I'm finding most disturbing at the moment is that I watched it again last night with DD, who was out on Saturday night, and we both sniggered at exactly the same point, when the Doctor said 'River Song came twice'....

Yes Lulu but he must have told her at another, later point, because she definitely knew it in the library just before she died. So I think we can assume that they are properly married later on.

Like Rusty's time explanation, and here is my next question
Why didn't Amy and Rory know they were together? And then at the top of the pyramid, Amy tells him about being married and having Melody/River.
There's no reason they shouldn't have been together, apart from setting up the "Rory stands alone against the Silents scene".

Sidetracking a bit, to those of you who have been to the DW experience in London, any tips? (Saw the one above about not going too fast through the weeping angels forest) And with the "enhanced tickets" are the extras you get worth it? Personally, I'm going for the basic ticket, but didn't know how good the goodies are.
Also, I know the certificate says "I flew the Tardis" - is this bit just a screen, or is it an actual flight simulator type thing (ie the floor moves as well). DD1 is not great on simulators so just wanted to prepare her if it is (she hasn't been on one since she felt queasy on the Star Wars simulator in Eurodisney when she was 10!)

Don't know about "enhanced" tickets (DH booked), but didn't notice any bits that weren't open to all.

The TARDIS flying is part of the walk-through adventure, and you get to move a control on a panel just off the replica console, which does make the console move and starts lighting and sound effects. The Doctor's script does say something about the controls working better for children, so they need to have priority (various miffed looking Dads at that point!).

They do green screen photos just after the walk-through. You can be put inside or outside the TARDIS, individually or in groups, or in the Pandorica (can't remember if there are other options). They a VERY expensive though.

I don't think that the pyramid being an alternative/aborted reality stops the Doctor and River from being really married. Same as with Amy "I remember so it happened" with regard to killing Madam K. These people live in, travel to and experience different realities and timelines so even if they are aborted for other people they happened for them.

With regard to the Docor not actually telling River his name then I'm not sure that Steven Moffat really knows what he is talking about! No seriously, that would make sense to me as an explanation for them not actually being married but then River's comment to Amy is that she is his wife afterall in which case, either River lies (yes she does and that is fine) or she has been deceived which is not fine!

I always thought that the Doctor whispered his name to River as he was dying after the Judas kiss in LKH. Am I totally missing something there - do we actually know what he whispered to her at that point.

Off to google DW experience!

Well we don't actually know what makes a binding marriage for Time Lords!

I suppose River is the only possible bride if same species is a requirement. Consummation does not appear to have taken place. And we don't know for certain when she learned his name, or indeed if that is anything to do with being married.

The enhanced tickets are just extras - lanyard, certificate, tshirt etc - just didn't know if anyone had seen what they are actually like

Thanks for the info re the tardis bit - as DD1 is 18 she can just stand back with ther est of us adults and let her younger sister do the simulator bit!

How much is very expensive? I refused to pay £7.50 at Paulton's Park for a ride photo so think we'll be sticking with taking exhibition pics (I'm sure someone said they took a picture next to a Cyberman in the museum)

oh i think consumation took place!

Dorains head: "And Doctor Song? In prison all her days?"

11 - Her days, yes, her nights... well, that's between her and me."