My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

I agree with a PP that his washing should be done for him. I wasn’t at all spoiled as a child/teen, but other than sometimes going to the launderette when I was bored or washing out a pair of tights in the evening, I always had clean clothes ready for me.

I also think that his anger might stem from him struggling at school. They will be putting pressure on at 15.

I think this is a long road where you need to really talk to him when you’re on your own over several days/weeks. He’s at crisis point and you need to try to connect with him with tears/pleas and assurances of love.

edited to add that if he’s sporty, there will be washing load will be huge and if there is a lot going on in his brain, it’ll make him cope ( mentally) even less

In answer to some questions "
He didn't attend nursery i was a SAHM when he was young.
He has had a very loving family and loving grandparents, aunties , cousins. When younger when visiting them he always wanted all of the attention on him . He would talk and talk and talk and want the whole room listening to him. But he has no interest in what anyone else has to say . This has improved with age but he still doesnt show interest in anyone. Told cahms all of this.

The friendship group, we did it because he would he left out without the items and they go off without him . He then becomes very upset and depressed. Difficult situation.

He used to do football and other hobbies but stopped them all and just wants to be out with friends.

Xmas - not justifying but items quickly add up.
He has a second hand phone £300
New nike trainers £175
New fishing set up , £200
4 x aftershave £250
Beats headphones £99

Yes, ditto, I remember teens who were awful at 13,14 but by 16 were different people, just great.

One even said to me with a smile when I was supervising her class, at 16, 'wasn't I dreadful before?'

She and her equally awful friend are probably now pillars of respectability, volunteering n the community.

I have no idea what means. Do they pay off your outstanding months/years left on your contract

@Wherehaveigonewrong29384 I haven't read the entire thread, I jumped to comment when I read you are waiting for CAMHS to put you on the diagnostic pathway.

This is a huge mistake in my experience. My DS had 3 referrals for anxiety which were all very much useless (parent led interventions which didn't work). Then the third was refused as he didn't meet criteria.

There are some similar traits to your son around needing control, high levels of anxiety. Not until secondary school did we end up through a different route of referral and realised he was ASD and probably also ADHD (being assessed for that in a couple of weeks). If we had been waiting for CAMHS nothing would have happened.

I am sure rarely kids are little shits just because they are, but more likely there is something else at play and given you can spend thousands on bikes and Christmas presents I am amazed you haven't prioritised getting him proper assessment and support.

I'll say it again - maybe unfairly but it's my experience - CAMHs are shit, nothing will happen quickly, and even if they do agree to assess you'll be waiting years.

If he IS ADHD medication could change his life. Given you can afford it, you owe it to him that he get support sooner rather than later

He might enjoy watching you and your.partmer fight about him ,,first thing be united .
Odake him earn his money and clothes and treats .
I have a 15 year old and he's a bit of a menace in school but generally good natured and not malicious although makes unwise decisions,,so I think ages plays a big part in this .
Sometimes we think we are keeping the peace by giving in instead of making it uncomfortable for him .

When younger when visiting them he always wanted all of the attention on him . He would talk and talk and talk and want the whole room listening to him. But he has no interest in what anyone else has to says

ADHD.

Reduce all demands on him including chores. He’s struggling to cope. Already sounds dystegulated.

I think you need to get him a proper private assessment. It could be down to his brain wiring but at least hopefully there will be things in place for you to manage it.

He sounds very spoilt.

'Hang in there, it really does get better! In the meantime grey rock the shit out of the situation. Try and let it wash over you as much as you can.'

This.

For whatever reason be it peer pressure or personality he is an entitled little shit. You won't get any answers from him just be consistent and hope for the day he grows out of it. It isn't nice obviously but you sound like you've done everything possible now it's a case of gritting your teeth and bearing it whilst not being doormats.

We went through similar, our daughter has ADHD /ASD she was also diagnosed with Pathological Demand Avoidance. It sounds very similar to what you are describing. Please do some research on it, it could be that its not actually his fault and he is Demand Avoidant.

I actually went and asked my husband if he had posted this, as it sounds very like our 15 year old! Even with a lovely 12 year old sibling (although also a boy). Very similar here, really fun, loving boy until he moved to secondary school. He'd always been energetic and hard to keep entertained, but everything accelerated at this point and the bad behaviour and attitude has been AWFUL. Moody, disrespectful, ungrateful, gross habits. Differences between your son and mine - unfortunately mine has stuggled with friendships (although luckily seems to have found a small group now) but on the positive side he is well behaved at school (saves his crap for home, twofold). He was on the CAMHS pathway for ADHD but we moved to private. CAMHS waiting lists were huge but also we'd heard not very effective. He received an ADHD diagnosis (which i asked CAHMS to accept, they did) and started medication, which we have now managed to move to shared care with the GP. The medication is not life changing but has certainly helped, and I am talking about helping his attitude. So definitely consider this. If you go private, choose a provider that follows NICE guidelines so that the diagnosis will be accepted by CAHMS and GP.

Great that you have another CAHMS appointment next week, but don't let them dismiss you again. You wouldn't have put him on the list if you didn't feel something was going on, and it sounds like there is. Parents know better than someone you meet for a short period, so stick to your guns. You have the budget so go private if CAMHS aren't helpful and consider medication (I was reluctant at first). My friend's ADHD son has also been diagnosed with Oppositional Defiance Disorder (sorry if I have the name slightly wrong) and it really sounds like this is something your son may experience - her son really could not accept rules and boundaries at home or school. Perhaps explore this, it's often in tandem with ADHD.

I think you have derailed the thread in places by mentioning money, so don't add this detail if you post again. Although at least it has been helpful to know that you can afford private diagnosis!

Final point, I am hopeful that things will improve in a year or two. I think teen hormones are horrendous for some kids, particularly if there is some neurodiversity going on. His hormones levelling out won't solve the ADHD, in my son's case, but i think it will be one less thing to mess with his head (along with the pressure of GCSEs being done, which definitely adds to the negative experiences in this age group).

Anyway, you certainly aren't alone. I do think as parents we have the responsibility to stick with it, as horrible as it is. It has negatively impacted my own physical and mental health, so I know it can be so hard.

No lifts, no money, no new clothes. Look into non violent resistance training. It’s designed for parents with children like your son, it should make your life a little easier. Unfortunately you may have to wait it out a few years and then move to evict him at 18 should his behaviour continue.

No - once your contract ends go onto GiffGaff - no contract going forward. Our whole family is on it - but I can turn off the teens data if I want ;-)

Did you see his Christmas list? This horrible child gets £1,000 spent on him, I was lucky if my parents could spend £100 on me!

I totally agree with @Doteycat . My DS was extremely challenging from 13-16 and what worked was clear, calm and consistent boundaries. I really do know how hard it is.
There is a good book called, ‘Get Out of my Life but First Take me and Alex into Town’ which is helpful.
I remember when I was a teenager and behaving badly and my parents told me they weren’t taking me somewhere because of my behaviour. I’m sure I didn’t react well but I remember thinking that that was fair enough.
I have chatted to my DS and asked him if I could have done anything different and he said he just had to get to the point where he stopped being such an idiot and can’t think of anything that would have helped at the time. With him I think hormones played a part as he grew ridiculously fast and changed from a boy to a man before his brain or emotions caught up.
As others have said, be the adult, stay calm and don’t feel you need to jump to his every command. You want to raise a decent grown up and he has to realise that treating people this badly is not acceptable.
My DS is now incredibly considerate so there is hope!

As I mentioned earlier, NVR is an excellent tool to help parents, used properly.
This is the irish link to it.
NVR-Brochure.pdf

Withdrawal and threats of eviction are NOT part of this programme.
Please read it.

Hey OP, your son sounds very similar my my own. Although, my son has been diagnosed with ASD. If you are interested, send me a quick PM and I'll tell you what we have done. Much of it probably wont apply to your situation, but at least you will know you are not alone. I definately won't be posting it on MN at the risk of being judged, by people who have no idea what it's like to live with soneone like this.

4 x aftershave - why? One is plenty.

Why on earth are you rewarding him with such expensive gifts.

It’s not either/or. Teens can have mental health problems, and be spoilt and be behaving like an arsehole. Mental health issues don’t give you the right to be abusive to your family.

Definitely sounds like ADHD or ASD, please get him a private referral and do some research on both conditions - also, if he does get a diagnosis get a counselor with proper training in neurodevelopmental conditions

I'm going to say that the 4 x aftershaves totalling £250 sounds a bit much, he's already getting a lot of expensive items.
Could you just give him one and save the others?

This ⬆️. It's really not a carte blanche to treat your parents like this.

There’s a lot to unpick here!

First up, teenage boys are to one extreme or another absolutely horrible. Even the ‘best’ 15 year olds are a pain in the neck for one reason or another (or multiple reasons). It’s a really difficult part of life, and one I don’t think many look back on with much fondness - but when it settles down at 17/18, it can be a whole lot better.

You’ve mentioned two things that it might be worth thinking about / reflecting on… 1) you mention that he can never see anything he’s done wrong & always feels it’s someone else’s fault. If you look at your posts on the thread, can you see anything where you’ve admitted you might have got things wrong? Not meant as a dig, but sometimes we’re our own worst enemies in seeing how we might have contributed to a
perceived flaw in our kids. 2) you mention a lot that you’ve tried everything… that seems to
me there’s no consistency, nothing for him to fall back on and know that if he acts in one way what the response will be. There’s so many self-helps / sources of advice (irony alert me chiming in), what can get lost is your own intrinsic values and morals. If they’re not the cornerstone of your parenting then kids will be confused.

its really fucking hard being a parent. But it can also be hard being a kid - especially a teenager finishing their way.

if I were you I’d do three things (in order)…

1. sit down with DH and write down a structure for how you as parents will operate from
   now on- what’s allowed, what’s not. What you will do for him (and DD - this should be a whole family thing) what he/they must adhere to etc

2. find a good time (before Christmas!) where you and DH are likely to be in a good mood / relaxed & have a proper conversation about the structure you’ve come up with. I would do this out of the house, neutral ground (or maybe even the car… often easier to chat when you don’t have to look each other in the eye). Explain that you love him, you want the best for him, but that the way things are working at the moment is making you miserable, and that he doesn’t seem happy either. Talk him through the plan (and explain your going to give him the details, and he will have the opportunity to respond without being interrupted), give him the opportunity to push back (could maybe put a limit on how many ‘changes’ he can make). Finish it by saying that you will be there for him, you love him and want to enjoy a happy life as a family. It’s not us against you, it’s us as a family trying to find a better way of being together). There will be eye-rolling and push back, he’ll find it awkward and so will you, but…

3. stick to your guns. Repeat the message over and over and over. Don’t accept things that don’t fall within the bounds of what you’ve agreed, but acknowledge when things have gone well. Try and have a small portion of the week where you do something as a family (let him & DD choose within reason). Use the family time to enjoy being in each other’s company and check in.