My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

This! And as for love bombing him bloody hell OP that'll make things worse,It seems he's just had money and goods thrown at him without proper boundries or consequences and he knows it too, crikey if I ever dared treat my parents like that when I was his age there would be hell to pay for, this is the fallout of spoiling children...

He can't follow rules at home or at school - he wouldn't even make it past basic training in the army with his current attitude.

OP I don't know if mumsnet is the right place for you to find answers. I think you might be better off speaking to a therapist, as a family. And then maybe your son having therapy separately as well. He sounds deeply unhappy.

For now, though, you need to stop letting him go out all the time. That's just reinforcing the idea that he isn't wanted. You and your DH need to spend some one on one time with him. When did you last do that?

And about the money and the gifts. Cut the spending for BOTH children, that way it's fair.

Maybe have a look at how you treat them both, and see if there are other things you could change so that he feels less rejected.

As pp have suggested, money in exchange for chores is fair. But your DD will need to do this, too.

Oh dear oh dear, god love him. He sounds bloody miserable. As do you.
Ive been there, oh have i been there. And with respect, this sounds like chaos.
You have no control of the situation, you are floundering and bouncing from trying this to trying that to not trying anything. No wonder its chaos.
And as for Dh saying "im done". Dear god thats unnacceptable behaviour from a grown man.
As my girls used to say, "breaking news, teenager is being a twat". And the grown ass man who is his father cant handle it? Time to man up mister.
But apart from that, Ill tell u what we did. We got excellent advise from a parenting councellor when we were at the end of our tether, with all of this kind of carry on from our DD. We did a 10 week course, dh and I, that dd knew nothing about. She still doesnt and never will.
This is called Non violent resistance. Im sure plenty here will have heard of it if they have troubled teens. As my councellor said, it works on the worst of them, it will work on mine. And you have DH on your side, hopefully. Many have v negative environments with no support. So hang in there.
First off, you need to model the behaviour you want to see back. So no shouting, no roaring, no calling names (not saying you do, just as an example). Speak to him with respect at all times. ALL times, even when he is being a complete gowl.
Im making dinner DS, its ready at 6.
F off, im not eating that.
Dont speak to me like that, dinner is at 6.
DO NOT correct him dont even acknowledge the rudeness. He knows hes being rude, hes looking for a reaction, do not give it to him.
Let his darts fall short of the target.
When he has been rude, or mean, or rotten, and then he comes looking for a lift, you calmly, CALMLY, say, im sorry DS, i cant do that, i dont give lifts to people who call me names, and walk away.
His laundry, go to him and say DS, your laundry is downstairs and ive left the machine empty for you, work away there love. And walk away. IF he chooses not to do it, then he has no clean clothers. But you are not being a wagon, you have respectfully advised him of the situatiuon and you control it.

If/when, he loses his temper, do not match him in it.
If he is the one shouting and losing control, if someone walks into the room in the middle of it, it needs to be VERY clear who has lost control and it cannot be you. DD learned very quickly that she go no where in a vacuum.

She was also told, very clearly and very calmly that we loved her dearly but that all the extras like funding his funstuff was a privelage not a right. And that we could choose to do it or not. And that given the level of behaviouir from her, that we would not be funding anything past 18, now granted she was 17 so you may have to rejig that a bit with him.

Do NOT take his phone from him, that is one of the worst things u can do to a teen these days, its how the socialise, its their life line, its everything to them. I Guarantee you you will escalate things if you take his phone.

But, we took back control,. Control of ourselves, control of the home, control of the level of aggro we had in the house. Control of what i did and did not do for her. And honestly, this plan, and we did it in stages, it took about 6 or 8 weeks before we started to see a difference.
Was she sullen, yes she was a v unhappy teenager, but sure thats grand, Was she destroying us anymore? Nope. Becuase no matter what she did, We knew we had displayed the kind of behaviour we wanted to see.
You HAVE to be the parent, the calm one, the one that holds on tight to the rope while he kicks and bucks at it. If you let go, he will fall.
And Im sure you dont want that.
So 6 years on, DD is lovely, Has her moments, yes, shes still who she is, but shes using her powers for good now instead of evil.
Shes on course to get her law degree, and her masters in internationl human rights in Amsterdam.
And she knows we didnt give up, we won, but mainly , she did. And she knows we never let her down and never let go.
As I used to say, thats the thing about uncondoitional love, its unconditional
PLEASE look up NVR and maybe get a course on it.
This was my 3rd DD and i never ever thought id need it, but it made such a difference.
Sorry this is SOOOOOOOOO long.

So, I’m afraid, you need to do some tough love. It’s hard to be told you are crap parents, but you need to put your fingers in your ears and ignore him. It’s emotionally abusive on his part, bullying and manipulative, and he’s learned by the fact that you and DH throw money at him or sigh and give in on the laundry, that he can keep doing it. Just stop. Don’t give him a penny, change the wifi code etc.

Then post a tariff on his door: doing your washing = £x; cleaning your room, washing up, a week withougt being on report = a lift to mates on Friday night etc. If he wants money, he has to step up (GoHenry cards and similar facilitate this and is what we used for our kids so they understood money was not a perk, but a privilege of having working parents).

And just like cry down/sleep training with a baby [appreciate they don’t advise this method any more] you sit in a safe space, hold your DH's hand and find your nerve. If he kicks off big time you and DH scoop your DD up and you all go out for a stress free family pizza without him and focus on her.

I’d also speak to school to truly understand what they make of the behaviours they are seeing there, whether this has been triggered by impending exams, whether they’d advise counselling or a clinical/ed psych assessment - you’d be amazed how often issues such as dyscalculia, dyslexia… and yes other ND conditions, can be missed because they are talkative and charming and mask lack of homework behind a gift of the gab, that is really a ‘please don’t look to closely, I’m struggling’ ruse. He may need some support. This is not to say that his behaviour needs to be tolerated, though, but I would be open to exploring all options.

Love bombing and £2k bikes...OP, kindly, you are enabling this behaviour in the extreme.

Take the £1k of presents back and get a modest gift which reflects his behaviour this year.

If he's at the point where he goes out without permission then you need to put serious boundaries in place. Stop paying for his phone. Change the wifi password. If he's rude and disrespectful he needs a consequence.

Pull the plug on all the handouts. At 15 he can earn his pocket money or go without.

I’ve not read every reply- so apologies if someone else with a child like this has already replied and said similar.

It’a really easy of you don’t have a child like this to pass judgement and make suggestions, but in reality much harder.

DS (21) is super easy, hard working and has generally never given us much trouble. DS (20) sounds like your son. Really hard work as a child but funny, popular and extremely likeable.

Things got much harder when he was a teen. He couldn’t see anything from anyone else’s point of view. We were always wrong and he was angry and difficult most of the time. Whilst I agree with the sentiment of stopping things and there being consequences the reality is that parenting very difficult children is much harder than most will ever understand.

I could give you lots of tips, but the best thing I did was to get counselling for me. He wouldn’t have gone at 15 but I saw someone who both helped me with a strategy to deal with difficult situations but also manage my own emotions which were always on edge and probably didn’t help.

He also got an adhd diagnosis at 15 and that helped a bit to at least understand things in his head.

Now at 20 he does have counselling an is aware of his emotions. I’d say he is 70% delightful, caring and wonderful and 30% really hard work. You never quite know what you are getting but he is dealing with that 30% much better and it less impacts everyone else. And the delightful percentage is definitely increasing gradually to give you hope.

15-19 was really tough though. You have my sympathies!

Yes, but he, after having been thrown out of the army training camp, would be kissing the ground his parents are walking on. V, good idea about the army.

Can't get my head around 1k at Christmas.

I'm nearly 70 and nobody has ever given me this kind of money, ever.

100 would be more suitable.

My sympathies to you OP I’m going through similar at the moment. My son is on the ADHD diagnosis pathway and life with him can be very very hard. When he’s good he’s the best child in the universe but when he’s bad he’s very very horrid.

The best way I find that works is literally to stop all the nice things I do for him. I don’t argue back to him i ignore him and tell him to come back
to me when you want to be respectful.

The money all the nice things that you buy, getting him a 2K bike when he doesn’t understand the value of money is ridiculous. if he can’t be respectful he gets nothing. And on your last post you stated that when he’s good we will love bomb him. Again that is ridiculous. he’s supposed to be respectful he’s supposed to be good. He shouldn’t be rewarded for the things that he should be doing. If his friends have it all so what maybe he needs to learn to be a better person.

What does 'love bombing' look like @Wherehaveigonewrong29384 ?

I work with kids and what you describe I see a lot of in ND children who need support in school and out. Once they get that support, they calm down a little. Is DS's school putting any support in place for him? A mentor etc?

I would also suggest a new Christmas present - family therapy for you all. If DS refuses to engage, that's fine, but you and your husband (and your daughter) need to go. It may help explore the dynamics of what is going on with an experienced therapist.

If there is neurodivergence, it's highly likely that your DS is not the only one. (My DD is diagnosed but my DH is so similar and they clashed A LOT when she was a teen. We went for family therapy, it helped.

Wow - 'he behaves like this because you put in in nursery...'
The country is doomed!

It’s very obvious that most of these posters have not had these same issues with their own teenage children, that’s if even their children have reached teenage years.

It’s very difficult to produce a child like this with this level of behaviour through buying them Christmas presents, doing their washing, paying the phone bill, loving them and generally being normal parents - not perfect but relatively ‘normal’. You may get some spoiled behaviour which when you explain things changes.

There’s obviously some sort of mental health issue whether that’s neurodivergency or personality disorder etc which has been acknowledged by the op so all the advice on what to do like stop paying the bill and it’s op’s fault because she bought him presents for Xmas is ridiculous.

Forget about camhs if you can’t get an appointment, you should look to go private for an assessment

Sorry, but he sounds seriously spoilt and by just getting everything he wants with no effort or gratitude he is not maturing and learning self responsibility. He actually sounds like a narcissist in the making. Stop spending so much money on him. If he wants expensive stuff can't he get a part time job. You say his friends are lovely, but they look down on people who have less. They actually sounds like snobs. Do they have chores etc. And your son is probably not getting in trouble at school all by himself either. Cut the big spends now. For both children.

Quite, @Higgledypiggledy864 ! Plus, who knew years 0-3 are critical!
Seriously, no parents are perfect, none of us on here would claim that. However, there is a serious problem here which needs to be addressed and he cannot continue to be so rude, unpleasant, greedy and entitled.

This. If he's seeing Caamhs he's definitely got additional needs as they are busy and really quite shit in my experience.

Research. Then go for private assessment.

A lot of this sounds similar to my now 22 year old son as a teenager. I didn’t work it out until he was 18, but he has inattentive adhd. Up until age 14 he was the most delightful kid and in hindsight able to mask at school but then he couldn’t anymore. He was horrendous to live with and always in trouble at school. I didn’t know it at the time but he was struggling with anxiety and feeling worthless. The diagnosis was not a magic fix but we have since put a lot of value on the way he thinks differently from mainstream, that he’s entrepreneurial, that it doesn’t reflect on him that school was not teaching for the way his brain works etc. His self esteem has picked back up and his anger shows up very infrequently, he hasn’t had a burst for nearly a year now.

Could he be struggling with his sexuality?

You need to reset and take a breath. If you can decide on the boundaries and then calmly let him know what they are. So he does his own laundry, gets 2 lifts a week, gets basic clothes etc bought for him and if he wants better either give him an allowance so he can save or he gets a part time job. Stop giving him so much stuff for hobbies or say if he wants hobby stuff he has the do that hobby for a year or pay it back. That being rude will get him nowhere and if he wants to move out etc at 16 you will support that and help him understand what that actually costs. It is deeply upsetting and feels so personal but it can and does change. If he wants autonomy and independence then give him some but that comes with getting less from you ultimately. We had this with ds and it helped sometimes to call his bluff.

Probably get flamed from the mumsnet mafia but he sounds like he isn’t coping with life and needs a bit more support from you. Things like saying washing his own clothes is his responsibility I would try and help him. I did with my son and he hasn’t ended up spoilt and now does his own washing in his own flat. He is probably under a lot of stress from all different directions and you being tough might not help. Also perhaps buy him a gratitude diary for Christmas. Maybe try listing his good points too. There seems to be a wall up with him now and you need to try and break it down a bit.

£1k seems too much to spend on a child for Xmas. I could afford to spend that on my two sons for Xmas and birthdays but I just wouldn’t. I spend £100-£200 and that seems a lot to me. Spending more than that would be a one off like wedding, moving into their first home …
My two started doing their own laundry at 18 and they have grown up sharing dishwasher duty. Both cook too.
It would be good for him to get a job to learn the value of money.
I wouldn’t get into arguments, but agree with a previous comment about stating facts and pointing out calmly that you are finding his behaviour rude or disrespectful.

It’s not easy for teens to deal with their hormones (and your daughter may struggle with hormones in the coming years) so some understanding is required, along with love and calm reinforcement of reasonable expectations in the home .
My two are 26 and 24, still living at home, and they sometimes think I’m unreasonable but I’ve learnt to mostly be calm and raise issues when we are all calm. I want them to leave home happy rather than resenting me and desperate to leave home.

I get that teenagers are hard - I have my own. He needs to learn that life is give and take - he won’t get all the lifts, money, clothes etc if he doesn’t uphold his side of the bargain. That means basic respect, chores etc that you expect from him in return.

You say he doesn’t like being in a place where there are consequences but it doesn’t sound like there are any if you’re still rewarding his bad behaviour by giving him the things he wants.

Stop rewarding his bad behaviour with favours, treats and gifts.

So your answer to this is to remind him that it absolutely does not constitute neglect and the school would not be concerned in the slightest.