My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

Ufff he sounds like developing a narcissist personality. I am not an expert but look into this for certain traits. You have a very difficult situation here. You have my sympathy. People who has less problematic children would not understand.

I do agree with this. For me it was undiagnosed ND. No amount of punishment at home helped and it just built up resentment.

How does your DH see this long term? Is he willing to put sone work in now for the benefit of a long term relationship with his DS? I’d start by smiling when you see him. It might be the last thing you feel like doing but it should help relax both DS and the situation. Nobody wants to be in a home where everyone frowns at you and at 15 he is unlikely to realise that you’re frowning becauae his actions are making you so bloody tense.

I would also take him out, somewhere neutral but public, like a coffee shop, avd ask him how he is. Recognise that he’s on the brink of adulthood and ask him what his plans are. What he’s planning on doing at 16, 18 and afterwards. If for instance he is thinking of going to Uni at 18 you could talk to him about what courses he may have considered and if he wants to go and visit any when the Open Days start again next June.

I also think that you’re lucky with your DD, Teens in my experience are rarely grateful. If your DS has always had lots of money spent on him, then this is just his normal.

@OneBookTooMany you have no idea whether the child is ND or not. A friend’s child has been in and out of professionals since he was a small child but was always borderline and traits and not at diagnostic criteria. The parents were definitely not the ones seeking out a diagnosis it was always schools and if anything I would say the parents were a bit in denial.

We have 2 autistic children and in the contexts we met this child it was always as obvious as the nose on our face that he was autistic. He had AFRID, dyspraxia spoke to you for hours about his special interest, socially unaware, difficulties with his peers socially, the list could go on and on.

But yet each time he was having difficulties and his parents brought him to be seen no diagnosis until secondary school when the wheels really came off and even what the professionals saw was the autism that we had seen just in different contexts to what they would have seen over the years.

Autism/ADHD can be tricky to diagnose and some of this child’s very rigid, controlling behaviour and the lack of care or understanding of others (it can go either way in ND on this one) do have the hallmarks of ND or a developing PD. It is likely that some PDs are a form of ND anyway certainly the traits of PDs that differ from the “typical” population are by definition a ND. There is nothing normal or typical about this child’s behaviour.

Sorry I posted before reading your latest updates. If he’s been referred multiple times, what assessment is he being referred for? ADHD, ASD or both?

Like others have said, unfortunately CAMHS are unlikely to be of any use. If you think he has some ND and he wants assessing, I would personally look into private assessment. Have the school screened him for Dyslexia too?

And I’m glad that you’ve had that talk. Keep talking to him. He doesn’t have to go to Uni but getting 5 GSCEs including Maths and English will be helpful for him. Maybe suggest looking at Apprenticeships together?

How on earth do you make a going on 16 year old do any of this?

Fairly recently he could have been working for 2 years.

It's laughable.

Well done !

very familiar that he’s struggling with school hence acting like that

get a private adhd assessment ; medication does wonders for school and home life. Go privately and he will be in a good path within a month

good luck

You may be misunderstanding the use of the term here. As far as I'm aware, "love bombing" is a technique christened and recommended by Oliver James for difficult children. It basically boils down to "spend time one on one with your child doing things they want to do".

It has now also expanded to mean the excessive charm and attention a narcissist will lavish on someone intermittently though.

I'm not surprised about the school work - as you clearly have money I'd get him some help - tutors in RL or on-line support and I'd also get him looking at local colleges - see what courses they offer post 16 and take him to open days get a plan or plans in place to take some of the pressure and worry off him.

If your long term moving great - though there are other ways of expanding his peer group - but I have to say like many posters this group didn't sound great to me - and it sound like he's desperate to fit in with them and things are how he's trying. I wodner if that the class clown act at school as well as he's struggling socially and desperately trying to hide that and fit in.

My working assumption on MN is that 99% of the usage of terms which have a meaning a scientific or diagnostic context are being used incorrectly, usually combined with a degree of projection.
Not least because nobody on a social media thread is in a position to judge the nuances of the real life relationships and anyone competent or qualified to judge against such terms would have more sense than to so do.

I really sympathise with you. It is very difficult to deal with a teenager like this. You probably already know that he is probably very miserable and angry inside. Is it possible to have a discussion with his pastoral/house/group tutor (however his school is set up) about this? It strikes me that he may benefit from some sort of outside, challenging activity, with an adult mentor of some sort. Does he have interests? (Is there a guitar-playing/art/drama/football/swimming class he can join?) He needs to be able to be 'good at' something that is challenging and provides self-discipline. At the moment he is in a spiral of 'bad boy/punishment/more bad boy' vibes. And the 'very good' daughter is part of that. It is so easy to be the 'well-behaved' one when you have a 'bad boy' in the family.

Am glad you were able to chat with him and have a bit of a breakthrough in discovering what is troubling him. Is he quite a sensitive child , the reason I ask that is because if his father is overly harsh it really will not bring the best out in him. It will make him retreat more into his self. I worked with pre school children and I would not discipline ones in the same way you would the sensitive ones. To be honest I was better with the sensitive ones , too soft for the more lively ones ! More gentle children require more gentle parenting in my opinion.

Just had a big cry with husband whilst they are at school but weve ended up falling out. Husband will not change his stance at all. Says son is just a massive nightmare and he cannot treat him any differently.
I spoke to him about balancing the tellings off with praise aswell so son feels loved and secure too, but husband not willing to do that. He says there is nothing positive so he can't say anything to praise him.
This is what makes things difficult because I love my children unconditionally and I dont feel like my husband does. I feel his love is transactional and he will only show it if the child is perfect almost? I dont know who is right or wrong in this but this is why I've been overly nice to my son in the past I suppose because I try to overcompensate for his dad's lack of it. This is what nearly led us to splitting up because I find it difficult to cope with that my husband wont budge and is happy to just let their relationship go to nothing. It breaks my heart

your husband is right - stop molly coddling your son - it's doing him no favours.

your son needs to do something to get praise, if he's angry all the time, does nothing etc. then no he doesn't get praise.

You are dividing your family because you are siding with you son. You are telling him its ok not to agree with his father - to be angry with him because this is what you think of your DH.

Of course your own experiences both of you are coming into play here.

I would suggest you as a an individual book a couple of sessions with a registered therapist quickly. To get you through the next couple of weeks.

Try to dial down the whole Christmas thing as much as possible.

Don't make decisions like moving, splitting up or anything like that right now.

I'm afraid your son has been spoiled. Of course, I don't know but I suspect all these " additional needs" are fictitious.

Kids like boudaries.

I’ve read a lot of obnoxious stuff on mumsnet but this is right up there. Do you think that parents want to go down the costly and stressful diagnosis road? That they are doing so just because they couldn’t be bothered disciplining. These are parents who will usually have had a much harder road with far more difficult interactions with the DC than you might ever imagine. They are going to the doctor because their DC is struggling. Despite what you think, your natural authority can’t overcome everything.

How some people can’t see beyond their own experiences, never ceases to amaze and disappoint me.

And I say this as a parent with a strong belief in boundaries, values, discipline and respect.

What exactly did you ask and your DH say no to?

If nebulous more praise - you were saying no way a few posts back.

If it's getting him extra help with school work - has he veto tutors/on-line support - can you just step in and help or can you sort something without Dh input? Does he want him to fail at school or does the think extra help will make no difference - what's his long term plan to get DS independent enough to move out? Could you not look at college course post 16 with DS and sort out a plan between you both then get DH onboard later?

Is it moving earlier - well there are less drastic ways to change peer groups though DS would have to be willing to try new things. You also don't need to buy stuff so he can keep up as it were even if you stay there - saying no is an option that frankly sound like it should have been used much more.

What pratical implications does DH saying no have - you can still find things to praise and try and influence behvaior and keep them a part as much as possible. You can still read round ND see if it fits - it may not he may just be 15 and angry at life - and try anything that might help - if it does be easier to get your DH on board.

I spoke to husband about the praise because of the comments on here telling me to do so, and also what cahms told us to do.
Constant negativity causes a vicious circle and needs to be balanced by praise aswell.
Even if my son does occasionally do something nice or has a good day at school my husband never says we'll done. My husband doesn't speak to him at all unless its to tell him off. He doesnt even say hello to him. That's how bad its gotten.

Husband isn't willing to help in anyway way, won't go to therapy, wont praise, wont help with school work, wont try and talk to him, nothing.so it all falls on me

So get support for yourself. Quickly.

Well then Dh behavior hugely unhelpful here - but I think you can still have a go at trying to reach DS and get improvements in behavior.

If DS up for it outside groups with older authority figures - as home and school both seem to have problems. here they have to do vilttering for part of a qulification - it made both DD1 and DS grow up a bit - there were other adults around with no complicated history with and a more professional environment.

We are the company we keep.

I'm sorry I would not agree that his friends are lovely if this is the behavior that comes from him spending time with them....

The pp will mean rejection I would think, not reflection