My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

what a lovely post! You sound like a great teacher - and fair play to your DH!

What a horrible and unfair comment, really despicable.

I understand why some posters are advising you to cut your son's privileges, and it might actually help, but it might not.
There are some really good books that are based on psychology and will address his attitude problem without harsh methods, or in a more child centred way.
There are books such as 'The explosive child' and others (I can't remember the name but it had the words like how to talk to big kids so they listen)
I would personally read 'parenting manuals' like that rather than stab around in the dark and hope for a better result.
I hope you manage to resolve his behaviour and attitude.

I mean, 15 year old lads are definitely into “fragrance” as they call it these days, but one expensive bottle for Christmas is already generous. Four is ridiculous.

This.

Why have you wasted £1,000 on an aggressive lazy, selfish teen.

Stop pandering to him until he learns some manners, and does his fair share..

Why on earth would you describe these as lovely friends OP? They sound absolutely vile. If he can't keep up with all their new stuff then they dump him. That's horrible.

I think it's pretty clear what the answer to his anxiety and low self esteem is though OP, it's those 'lovely' friends of his.

He's in constant fear of being dumped by all his friends and if you refuse to buy him silly amounts of stuff then that's exactly what's going to happen - so due to that he's constantly falling out with you and demanding more so he doesn't lose his friends.

I think you really need to think carefully about how you handle this OP and punishing him is not going to be the answer.

He turns the tracker off - no phone and not allowed out.

turn off WiFi or change the password so he can’t use it

you have to have family counselling with agreements and boundaries firm ones and you need a counsellor who won’t just give him everything

presents and phone are not a right

he earns them

be clear with the school over what is happening at home eg from Monday Fred will not have a phone - he has to earn it
£30 a month
this is doing the washing up x2 a week and cooking one meal

This 👏 💯 🙌

Those Tuesdays are becoming a pain in the arse 😆
Roll on Wednesday! 🤣

Just check he and his mates definitely aren't dabbling in cannibis, or cannibinoid vapes. Does horrible things to some teen personalities.

Help him to get a part-time job ASAP, so that he can save for driving lessons / insurance. Will boost him self esteem enormously.

PS the more you/your family are stressed, the less able you will be able to deal with things calmly, so look after yourself - protect time for yourself to exercise, improve sleep etc because this phase with certain teens is very tough. It will turnaround though. Goodluck!

I think this probably hits one massive nail on the head.
His friends sound like a bunch of charming (to adults) sly little, snobby twats.

Bloody hell! Don't write that. It may accidently leak into the ears of some sensitive young person.

Yes, he takes concerta. He is on it 3 years now and it has been brilliant for him.

Mea Culpa, Mea Maxima Culpa

Not every bit of bad behaviour is a mental health problem. Sometimes people just behave like arseholes and pathologising that behaviour helps nobody and requires a different approach

A parallel process might be when you feel tired all the time. You desperately want the GP to say you are short of a vitamin. A quick fix. But you're not. It's just life.

I've just been able to have a big chat with him as dad was out , and we actually hugged.
He put a lot of blame on his dad still. This is purely because dad disciplines him and argues back and doesnt give in.
We spoke about school, the behaviour is due to him struggling with the work.
Friends he definitely feels the need to keep up so desperately asking us to provide the things all the time.
We were thinking about moving house and I think we will do so now so he is not so close to these boys. He doesnt go to the same school as them.
I have reassured him that everyone in his life , family, teachers care about him and want the best for him and for him to have a good life.
Instead he has admitted to burying his head in the sand and actually has no idea how he is going to move out as he intends to with possibly both job, money or qualification.
I've told him we of course don't want him to leave but will always support and love him. I've had a big cry and things feel abit lighter. Just hope he takes it on board

I have read a good chunk of the thread (but apologies not all) to me it sounds like possible PDA, rare ASD subtype, not yet recognised in all the ND manuals. Showman and control are classic traits and some of the the things listed are very similar to my child, who is not yet diagnosed.
Just a thought and please ignore if not. First time poster x

That's positive, OP. Could you put a homework/revision schedule in place with him to help him with his schoolwork?

Sometimes 'body-doubling' can be helpful for focus. So essentially he works alongside you or his dad while you're doing something else. Not as a punishment but to keep him on task and accountable.

It is part of the autistic spectrum. My daughter was diagnosed first by a paediatrician. Then CAMHS didn't believe it so they assessed her for aspergers (this was a while ago) but she came out with a diagnosis of autism with PDA.

PDA can look like Oppositional Defiance but that's "won't" rather than "can't".

My daughter is an adult now and life is much easier for her as she doesn't have the same external demands you get as a child and she can speak to all adults like they are her peers without judgement.

@Arran2024 . I have to confess that I don't know the difference between PDA or ODD and, laying my cards on the table and from what I've read on these boards, I can hardly believe that a child not wanting to do as it is told is now pathologized.

My children-as did every child I know - went through a stage of defiance/not wanting to do what they were told to do.

I can still see my children, when small, both crossing their arms in front of their chests, folding their lips into a tight line and shaking their head back and forth while refusing to pick up their toys/put their shoes on/eat their veg.

In broad strokes, my approach was to take the line that I'm your mum and you will do what I say. They did know who was boss-me-and, as they got older, to say no to me was a big thing for them and would result in a punishment.

So, I think it is a perfectly normal stage of growing up and it is perfectly normal to then realise that yes, you do what you're told-even if it would mean floods of tears.

I didn't lovebomb, I didn't bribe them, I made it clear if they didn't do what they were told they would be punished so over to them and down to them.

That's because I'm their mum and I'm in charge.

I didn't make low demands because I wasn't making unreasonable demands in the first place. I wasn't a supplicant, I was in charge. Someone has to be and it sure as hell, in my house at least, won't be a teenager.

I'm not sneering at your experience at all but I am bewildered by it and I don't think labelling every perfectly normal naughty or defiant behaviour is a good thing.

I'm sorry but you are thinking of moving to get away from his peer group?

Sorry I realise you are thinking of moving because a 15 year old isn't so pally with his pals anymore?

Assume the 1k gifts are still available.

It's interesting that he's complaining about his dad, who is the one trying to put boundaries in place.

Like I said, it's autistic spectrum. If you try normal boundary setting etc with a PDA child it will make everything much, much worse, and if you have no experience of parenting a PDA/autistic child, we are not really on the same page.

All children are different.

If I "lay down the law" with my DC, who can be quite challenging sometimes, he will eventually do as he is told because he realises that not doing it is going to cause inconvenience for him and I won't give up.

He has a friend with whom this approach just doesn't work. We've had this friend over countless times, as I'm friends with the mum and they have a very limited number of people that they can safely leave him with. Trying to dictate to him or discipline in an overly firm or harsh way just leads to complete emotional or mental shutdown. He'll laugh in your face or have a complete meltdown, not because he's being intentionally defiant but because he can't back down or deal with the conflict or confrontation. I found the laughter especially difficult to deal with the first few times, until I realised it was a defensive response to essentially zone out of a situation that had escalated in a way this child just couldn't cope with. Now whenever I'm looking after him I ignore the bad and praise the good, I try to engage him by asking about his interests to build connection, I'm always calm and point out bad behaviour in a detached, impersonal kind of way and I physically intervene only when absolutely necessary for his safety and I tell him why I'm doing it and try to do it in a positive way - 'I'm just taking your hand because the road is busy here and I'd hate it if you got hurt. I'll let go as soon as I can, I promise, but I'm just a bit worried here.'

I can see that if you've never had to parent or care for kids like this, you'd think that establishing your authority over them and setting boundaries should work in almost all cases. But it doesn't.

But @Arran2024 I wonder if I do, if all mums do.

There isn't a child born who will automatically do as they're told.

Some take their child to the doctor, others impose discipline.