My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

You state that you always stuck up for your son and felt your dh was too harsh on him. It never works well unless with parents are on the same page. Now that you are in agreement you need to move forward as a united front. What has your dh spent £1k on for Christmas? I would suggest he sends it back and you buy more moderate gifts because spoiling him rotten when he is treating you so badly is sending mixed messages.

Keep going with the consequences consequences, but stop giving him so much. Set an allowance and let him use it as he sees fit. Once it's gone, it's gone. If he continues to be in trouble at school take away his phone and games consoles.

All children’s behaviour is communication. He is telling you he is deeply unhappy at home and at school. His behaviour is extreme. That means the cause of it is something significant or him. He is impossible at home because it’s a safe place to show his huge frustration and anger. You mentioned he doesn’t show interest in girls. Is he gay and struggling with that? Is he being bullied? Is he mixed up in county lines? Who are these kids he spends time with? The level of expense £2000 bikes is highly unusual where are his friends funding this from? Drugs? Sex work? You need to sit him down and find out what the massive problem is because there is one and he is letting you know. Withdrawing from grandparents makes me think it’s something he thinks they wouldn’t understand which is why I wonder about his sexuality.

@Muddywelliescleansocks he's also badly behaved and underachieving at school, so it's not just home.

Yes I said he “is deeply unhappy at home and at school” - that’s why I don’t think it’s a school issue in particular. Could be and he takes it out on family but my immediate thought was it’s much bigger than that - he sees no way out that’s why his behaviour is extreme.

Yeah, both together indicates a significant problem, as you have said. CAMHS haven't picked anything up, though.
I've asked the OP about school intervention, but she hasn't replied to that as yet.

That might all be true @Muddywelliescleansocks but it might also be true that he is a nasty little tyrant, who enjoys his family walking on eggshells.

I shake my head when I hear the OP, who tells us that he doesn't respond to loving kindness say that she will "lovebomb" him.

If I am right, I can tell her what her lovebombing will get her. It will get her a barrow load of contempt from someone who will despise the efforts she makes to pacify him. In his eyes, she will become even more weak and contemptible and he will continue to treat her accordingly.

No, lovebombing would not be my way-especially if I had already tried it and my efforts were to treated as if I was shit on his shoe.

let him be the shit on the shoe for a little while. It might work, it might not but I can tell you this OP, more lovebombing certainly won't work.

You know what they say about the Dane and his Geld-he always comes back for more geld. Don't give him any more.

Well, @OneBookTooMany , he certainly won't be "love bombed" at school. Rude and disrespectful to staff, disruptive to other learners and underachieving.

Also does he have any SEN, dyslexia, ADHD. Sometimes boys use poor behaviour to distract from struggling with school work

Or he could just be an obnoxious brat. I feel sorry for the OP having to live with this.

This is all also possible of course. In my experience of troublesome teens (in the criminal justice system so not exactly this situation) Kids of this age with stable loving homes as appears to be the case here don’t usually act out like this for no reason. In OP’s shoes I would be acknowledging there is an issue and trying to draw it out of him. If he is still like this at 18 I may consider tough love but not at 15 and not with a 12 year old living it all. She may be unhappy with her brother now but one day she will judge her parents for how the dealt with it and the impact it had on her. You get far more in life with the carrot than the stick and at this age too much stick and the boy may be lost to his parents forever. I accept I may be being far too soft but I have a 15 year old and the are just children in big bodies.

He sounds entitled and spoilt, don't give in to his demands, you and your DH sound too soft on him. 1k on christmas gifts is ridiculous when he is treating you all with a complete lack of respect.
Why is he getting this much when he cant even respect the rest if the family and house rules?
I think in many ways you and dh have unintentionally made a rod for your own back.
In your shoes I would come up with a plan with dh about what you both will tolerate from ds, what the consequences will be and stick to it.

I would also be spending one to one time with him once every couple of weeks and going out, may be to a favourite pizza place and just be together. I did this with both of my sons individually and it was surprised g how much they opened up and talked. I didnt interrogate, just had a few open questions , eg, 'hey, I havent seen your friend Dan in a while, how is he? Oh he's in a band now any good?" that kind of thing.
Praise him when he gets things right eg, coming back on time. Don't use sarcasm though!

Pick your battles. I went through a phase of making a mountain out of every molehill and it caused more problems and it was my own fault. You will know whats important and what you can roll your eyes at.

yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Does he have an allowance? Maybe give him enough money to cover essentials such as haircuts, money towards some clothes, haircut bit if he is foolish with it tell him once its gone its gone. You could teach him to budget.
In the nearly 40 years ive worked with teens the ones that come from families with good values and closeness will get through this phase and become nice blokes. There have been exceptions of course but I bet if you and dh put boundaries in place, are consistant and show love and empathy, give positve affirmation when appropriate, you will get over this hurdle.
Its not an easy time so hang in there op!!!

Well said....

Could be mental health, could be undiagnosed learning disability, so school a big struggle but as CAMHS not helpful I would start by trying to draw it out from the OP’s son and if she can’t I would look to friends, maybe a teacher, maybe a relative. In my household- although not ideal - I would try and get his sibling to find out.

Fair enough @Muddywelliescleansocks but it will be a lot harder to do at 18 than it would be now,

She has given him quite a lot of carrot. Sometimes, with some people, too much carrot doesn't work and sometimes the carrot giver has to consider shoving the carrot up the arse of the the wannabe tyrant.

Yes, it will be a shock to them but it will mean that they know their reign of terror-of making the whole family miserable-is at an end.

A student like this, underachieving in a critical year, would have been picked up for interventions. This is my experience, over many years in non selective state schools.
We can't just let them fail. Following behaviour management procedures would also include a referral to mentor or a session in Learning Support. We would normally check for additional needs and learning requirements.
We would meet the parents with the student and put in a plan of action
I'd be astounded if this hasn't happened.

This made laugh! You could well be right. It’s an incredibly tricky situation with so many people suffering. I do wish the OP the very best of luck. I’ve found it interesting the different perspectives on this thread - all reasoned. I hope the OP finds a way forward.

I very much doubt your DS has any kind of condition

Couple of things here....so far we have had numerous additional needs suggested and abuse. When did this become the " go to"

If there are additional needs, how is giving somebody 1k so they can show off to their peers helping?

Is there some sort of co dependancy going on?

Parenting in the 21st Century can be demanding , boring and draining.

Tough it it out and say no.

What is wrong with you? The OP is desperate and you come on here with your weird judgements about something you know fuck all about. Some teenagers are just arseholes.

This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly,

You need to keep reminding yourself of this, as I think it’s a miracle that he hasn’t gotten himself into the wrong crowd and it’s so easy to do at his age and in his current mindset.

Its a really hard adjustment as kids go from loving, enthusiastic and nice to be being moody, temperamental and hostile when they become teens.

Teens are the most challenging years - they think everyone hates them, they’re self conscious, they feel hard done by, they’re questioning their looks, sexuality, future careers - it’s such a difficult time to them.

You have to try and see it from his POV - he’s the black sheep of the family, he’s the ‘loser’ of the friendship group, he’s struggling in school - in his mind there is nothing positive about his life at all. He feels shit.
He’s going to act up if he feels this way.

He is at risk of becoming the class clown and then not bothering in class to try and get attention that way/distract away from his other insecurities.
This can then lead to him being kicked out of school or college and ending up down a wrong path.

This isn’t your fault.
We could all say you have given him too much/not enough, you’re too strict/not strict enough etc the fact is that no one is a perfect parent.
Most kids act up because of their home lives but it doesn’t mean you’ve done anything intentionally wrong.

He needs to build up his self esteem.

It is all about looks and material things at that age unfortunately - hence why he keeps wanting his hair cut, wanting nice things to keep up with his mates etc.

Can you try and encourage him into playing a sport - something like boxing or going to the gym.
Not only will the physical activity help but it will do wonders for his self esteem and there may be some good older male role models for him.

I would definitely question that they're "a good group of friends", though, bearing in mind what the OP has said.

Well the OP hasn’t defined what they meant by “love bombing” and since the term, along with “narc” and “toxic” are thrown around here with gay abandon its quite possible they have simply tried one of the models of unconditional support popular with the unqualified "experts" on social media.

When a teen starts playing up, a common recommendation is lots of attention and reassurance of love etc and this alone is often described as “love bombing” by, aforesaid unqualified pundits.

Perhaps if everyone without qualifications in the field would refrain from misusing these terms the OP might get better advice. Anyone who is qualified is not going to provide internet diagnoses and declare any of the parties to be “narcs” or “toxic”.

Ergo, anyone spouting “narc” or “toxic” on a thread like this is talking through their arse and can be completely ignored in favour of less excitable but more practical information on sources of professional help or practical tips which others have found useful when navigating challenging teen behaviour.

Oh and as for a 15 year old being too young to do laundry - sorry but this is ridiculous. Its entirely within the capabilities of a teen to do laundry, tidy up, clean and cook. More importantly its important that every teen contributes to the work of the family. They may not do a huge amount day to day, especially in term time but it matters than they are capable and expected to contribute to family life. Its entirely reasonable to tell a 15 year old complaining about the laundry service that he is free to do better himself.

Wealthy family + permissive parenting. He reminds me of some nepo-babies. I wouldn't be surprised if he was smoking/taking something - he must be getting a lot in pocket-money, judging from the Christmas gift budget and other gifts (my kids get under £100 each and I thought it's standard?)
I think mentioned charity work/soup kitchen/food bank help is a good idea.
While on your next luxury holiday, show him how modestly other people live. I always pinpoint it to my son to teach him gratitude - there is so much poverty on this planet. All this materialism has not done him any good, has it?
Boarding school would be worth considering, too, even in another country, or dropping them there with the relatives. I've heard of such cases and the kids have really humbled and come round several years later.

I am very late to this so sorry if this has been suggested, but I did read your posts and what jumped out for me was when you said he thinks he is the equal of teachers at school, as this is a classic symptom of PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome).

My daughter has PDA and it can be incredibly tricky to live with. They say PDA is where you keep thinking of autism but they don't meet the criteria. It is often missed by professionals.

It is all about control and anxiety about demands. But also people with PDA often struggle with hierarchies in relationships and will talk to teachers like they would talk to their peers.

There are clear strategies to use with PDA. These kids need support and being confrontational and making demands, having strict boundaries etc just ramps them up.

Our son was like this, it was desperate.
He was diagnosed with ADHD at 20.
He has extreme reflection sensitivity which caused the bad behaviour. He is a different person now and life is good.

Apologies of this has been suggested before, it's a very long discussion now, and I haven't been able to read through it all but, is there any option to send him somewhere like a "military school"... A tough love kind of situation where bullshit will not be tolerated.

You sound like you're in a horrible situation, that you're 15-year-old son who used to be more family-oriented and loving, has just turned completely narcissistic/sociopathic and has no empathy for anyone or anything, feels complete entitlement, finds a way to make any issue someone else's fault and never takes accountability, these are all very dangerous red flags and I know that you know this.

You're saying that at this point, your situation has become so desperate that you either can't wait 3 years for him to legally be able to move out of the house or you're hoping he'll run away, which of course you don't really want, you want your son back, the prepubescent one. By any chance could it be his friends influence? You said that he loves being with his friends all the time, and that he didn't used to be this way, well not exactly, you did say that he's always been extremely demanding but also used to have more balance.

I worry about your daughter, your husband and yourself, because if your son has taken it into his head that he can do absolutely no wrong, that he is the equal of anyone, that every single problem is absolutely everybody else's fault but his, that there are no consequences to his action ever, and that he's entitled to all the best things with zero effort or work on his part, doesn't that kind of sound like what you would have heard on one of those news programs about some troubled man who, you know, kills his whole family?
I mean I'm not trying to put that idea in your head, but it just sounds like it wouldn't be that much of a step at this point to fear this as an escalation.

Hence, why I asked if it's at all possible to find any type of very tough boarding school.
I'm sorry that that seems like the only thing I can suggest and that you're in such dire straits. What a living hell you must be in. All of you. I'm so sorry for this.

"We just want him to get to 18 and leave our home, that's how desperate we feel now"

I think you've reached the point where family therapy might be the way forward.

You are asking for help here so you are obviously aware that outside help is needed. There are too many conflicting opinions here. You don't need more conflict. You need more unity.