My whole family is miserable because of our teenage son

[Wherehaveigonewrong29384]

My son is 15. For his whole life he has always liked to try and control situations, have his opinion on everything and have the last word . To balance this out he was funny, entertaining and very loving.
Now as a teen the nice parts have disappeared and he is now just horrible to be around. We are at our wits end with him.
We have tried very hard to be calm, look at things from his point of view, have firm boundaries etc but things have deteriorated and we now at the point where son and dad can't stand each other, im in the middle, daughter on the sidelines.
On top of this he does absolutely nothing even when asked (chores etc) yet expects constant money, lifts, pay for his phone, demands clothes/ items /haircuts every week.
Further to this he is not doing well at school. Has a terrible attitude and is on report constantly. Of course we then have to put in consequences which then makes his moods /arguments even worse to live with.
He goes out with his mates every spare moment he has. This is one area that we dont have to worry about as is not a trouble maker out of the house and has a good group of friends, he is usually back on time mostly, but he is out an extreme amount of time. When hes out of the house , the house is calm. As soon as he comes in the atmosphere changes, im on high alert waiting for the argument that will inevitably happen over something. Son has said he goes out because he hates being with us and at home, but what he means is hate having to somewhere there is rules and consequences. We have tried to give our kids a wonderful life, amazing holidays, they have everything they want, a lovely large home, and I feel like a mug. My daughter is such a grateful person and he is such a selfish person.
I am so so tired of it all. My husband says like he feels like giving up doesnt want a relationship with him anymore other than providing his basics. (He's just spent 1k on him for xmas). I feel completely worn out by it all and dread him coming home.
My poor daughter who is 12 is a lovely young lady who has to listen to this all the time. She used to have a good close relationship with her brother but hes withdrawn from her too which really upsets her.
Dont know where to go from here, I was going to separate from my husband over it because I felt he was too harsh on him and to stop all the arguments. I've always stuck up for my son. But now im seeing it for what it really is and it is my son thats the issue .

Ridiculous armchair diagnosis as usual nowadays online.

Are ye paying too much attention to him I wonder. I've that tendency too. All of us would hate being watched and micromanaged all the time, he probably has enough of it in school. Sounds like he could do with more responsibility to challenge him and to teach him real life consequences. For example, if you have to work in the morning, leave him to get himself organised completely in the morning, set his alarm etc. Or don't be home when he comes home from school but leave snacks and leave rolls, turkey in the fridge etc. It could give him a bit of independence and space for his head (they're dealing with a lot at that age). Allowance could be tied to getting his few chores for the week done, instead of asking ye all the time

But OP's DD receives the same parenting (and the same amount of Christmas presents) and she isn't behaving the way her brother is.

He has had therapy twice it did nothing. He engaged when in there and forgot it all as soon as he came out .

Do you mean 2 x 1hr session with one therapist?

Or he was in therapy for 6m or whatever woth 2 different therapists.

Fwiw it sounds like the relationships are pretty broken.
i think if you can afford therapy (with 2k spent at xmas on kids... i'd hazard yes?) you should be looking at family therapy (so DS you and DH, not dd unless therapist requests it) i'd research someone who specialises in this and I'd view it as managing the situation until 18 AND that therapy is about everyone doing things differently. Not your DS changing himself because he is "wrong".

There's nature and nurture. Just as an example, not at all saying the OP is abusive, but one kid can have abusive parents and turn out fine while another will turn into abusers themselves.

Just because the one kid is fine doesn't mean that the abusive parenting was in any way ok, nor that it didn't directly contribute to the second kid growing up to be abusive.

The same holds true for all sorts of parenting. OP's parenting seems to have been quite materialistic and maybe overly indulgent. Her DD is turning out fine maybe despite that, not because of it.

Likewise a parent can be amazing and do almost everything right, and yet one child goes off the rails despite that.

Basically, I don't think you can point to a well-behaved child and say that's proof that the parents are doing a great job.

The OP mentioned earlier that she and her husband had tried 'love bombing' their son - which is a classic narcissistic trait tbh. At best, it sounds highly inconsistent if you're love-bombing your child one moment then saying he has to do his own laundry (and frankly I would not really trust a teenager to do that properly) and then showering him with £1K's worth of presents. The parenting sounds really off to me.

Neglect ?! 🙈😂 I’d dial the SS number for him and he can call them himself right in front of me , if he’s life is sooooo bad. He is literally terrorising you and you falling for it. He can go to school and tell them too. Let’s see how he likes life in foster home….

County lines? Drug use?

he didn't ask to be born

Yeah, no one asks to be born. So what?

He sounds spoiled.

Money, lifts, phone plans and weekly hair cuts are a luxury, not a necessity.

Cut the lot and tell him he can have them when he meets expectations, being 1. Respect. 2. Chores 3. Effort at school/homework.

End of.

What are you teaching him about life if you're letting him have everything and treat you like shit?!

College/uni/work are not going to put up with it and neither should you.

Can someone with knowledge tell me how, if the OP's son is neuro divergent, should she parent him? He still obviously needs to function in the world and to learn that boundaries exist. How does the OP implement this so that they are sensitive to any ND?

She finds what works for her DS - hence reading round what works best for different ND conditions and see if they work for them.

I know ND on MN is frequently used as a reason not to expect things - but we had expecations and gave support to the kids so they could met them.

Sometime it how you say things to them, how much you break tasks down, giving them tools to organising themselves - slowly taking yourself out of the equation - building life skills again slowly stepping back. There are tasks mine needed support with at older ages than other kids but by 18 were absolutely fine doing. Routines to avoid arguments - then using tools like alexia and phone alarms/apps to remind them so they didn't get upset with me reminding them. We found them often needed different things/communication styles but common behavioral expectations.

Slowly building their confidence as you help them succeed rather than jumping on them becuase they fail to meet expectations as it's often harder for them to do - not impossible just longer to learn and get there. Finding something however small to praise so you can build on it tommorow.

Op sound like she at the end of her rope - her DS sounds utterly miserable. There no obvious solution on horizon and doing more of the same likely going to get no different outcome. He's 15 still a child and needs OP - need both parents to step up and guide him however hard as that is and she got another three years to get through before he could hope to move out - she may as well search for any tips/communication styles she hasn't already tried and in meantime hold her boundaries as best she can and hope he comes though it all as many kids do.

Sexual assault by a trusted relative or friend? You would be surprised how much the kind if acting out you are seeing can be caused by trauma and the child’s inability to report an assault. I worked for a long time with a man who was sexually assaulted by his wrestling coach at 14 but did not disclose it to his parents until his late twentieth. In the meantime he had suicidal ideation and drug addiction as ways of coping.

I very much doubt your DS has any kind of condition. He sounds like a pretty normal, spoiled, testosterone-fueled teen boy whose parents have taught him that their world revolves around him. What he desperately needs are rules and boundaries. He will push back like crazy and tell you how much he hates you for ruining his life, but these are the years when you have to stand lovingly firm. He will thank you later. You can't expect to go on having the same relationship with a teenage son that you had when he was eight or nine years old.

I stopped doing my sons' laundry when the youngest was 11. I was a busy single mother working full time, and I would simply forget to do it, so without even being asked they got on and did it themselves. Anyone who can operate a PS5 can operate a washing machine. It literally takes one minute!

This! Plus try to find out why he’s so unhappy - he must be pretty miserable too.
He’s got no incentive or reason to behave differently at the moment.

OP, I don't think you've done anything terribly wrong. Honestly, I think genetics has at least an equal part in the way people turn out. Do you have any other difficult men who lack empathy in your wider family? No one can diagnose over the internet, but it sounds to me like your son has some kind of personality disorder, and no amount of love bombing is going to change that.

Having had some experience of this, I recommend you take the focus off him and put it on yourselves. Discuss with your DH how you can make life bearable for you and the rest of your family in the meantime. That's not to give up on him, more that the sooner you accept he never change, the easier it is going to be on you. Plenty of parents have adult kids they're not particularly proud of - it's a big club, though you wouldn't think so on here.

Oh yes so I am, my phone must have ‘jumped’ apologises,

I’ve read your post now OP. (Most) teenagers are (can be) incredibly selfish. Currently out of the five teenagers I’m constantly hitting my head on brick walls with, I have to say my girls are less selfish than my boys 🙈 they are hard work for different reasons but defo less selfish and they usually see it from others point of view a lot sooner than my sons do. I haven’t much advice because I often feel like I’m failing at times but I just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I feel like I’m constantly feeling like I’m forever on their backs (which I suppose is accurate) I find I have to praise for the tiny things like you do when they were toddlers in the hope to get a little more from them. My eldest is out the other end now he is 18, and honestly he was bloody awful by far the worst out of all mine but he is now an adult and in the big wide scary world of work, running his own car etc and he actually goes out his way now to help me at times don’t get me wrong he still ignores the no eating up stairs rule and constantly finding cups and bowls in his room that apparently magically found themselves in his room oh and at times sleeps with his freshly washed and ironed pile of clothes I took the time to do for him but he hasn’t the teenage chip on his shoulder he one had. I tend to pick my battles now with the others. I do let a lot slide but then I do come down hard on certain things, I tend to find they don’t automatically switch off. I tackle some things first (currently it’s their light chores, bedrooms tidied, dishwasher) main thing is consistency and you and husband getting on the same page

Good luck I was a horrible teen and I think I’ve turned out ok. I also have apologised to my parents many a time cos now I know how awful they must have felt big hugs xx

Have you heard of PDA? Previously called Pathological Demand Avoidance - more recently Persistent Drive for Autonomy.

You might find these links helpful:

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda/

https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-helps-guides/understanding-and-supporting-distressed-behaviours-in-pdaers/#:~:text=Other%20distressed%20behaviors%20in%20people%20with%20PDA,Trauma%20*%20Fear%20of%20loss%20of%20autonomy

https://naomifisher.co.uk/tags/demand-avoidance/

He is setting the tone. I had a parent like this, coming in and off immediately-the rest of us sitting there like fools taking it, having spent the half hour before they were due in on tenterhooks.

Of course, we were children and not in our home so we had to take it.

But you and your husband are not children and this is your home,

If he comes in "looking for a fight" give him one and make sure that it is one that will make him think twice before he throws his weight around again.

You have tried being sweet and kind. Has it got you anywhere?

Try the opposite approach. What have you got to lose? His good opinion?

He is your child in your house upsetting you all. Don't let one person out of four ruin a happy home.

You are his parents. Time to put the boot down firmly. If he comes in looking for a fight after school today, be ready for him.

He comes in raging and shouting and swearing
When he calms down, can he explain why he's like this?

To be honest he sounds spoiled. Love bombing? I don’t know what that is but instead of the whole ignore then win him back with stuff and “love bombing” why don’t you just be consistent. He shouldn’t have a phone if he treats you like shit. He can get a job and pay for it himself. But this will be hard to change now after essentially giving him everything he wants up until now.
I would sit down and talk to him and tell him how things will be, moving forward, and if he wants to report you for “neglect” because you won’t do his laundry, let him.

The only place he is unobserved by adults is when he's with his friends.
You may think they're nice boys but alot of teens put on an act with adults.
Is he taking drugs with or being bullied by these boys? Have you searched his things, seen his phone, computer ect.
Does he exercise regularly as that will help with his anger.
I would write him a letter explaining that you are worried about him and want to support him but his behaviour at home is abusive and unfair and must change.
Teens do tend to improve as they get older, hormones are raging and they feel confused and lost.

@SuziQuinto

In my post immediately above yours, I refer to a parent coming in and behaving like this boy, ruining our peace and frightening us.

It was actually my mother and she did it for no other reason than she liked to be cock of the walk and see us all frightened of her. There was no other reason apart from badness.

We used to beg my dad to do something but he was just as scared as us"

She pulled her horns in when my two elder siblings got older and stood up to her.

My aunt told me my mother had been like this when she was a girl but their mother had been too gentle to give her a kick up the arse.

Some people are bullies-they like to think of others being scared of them-like to think that their own families are dreading them coming home.

This lad has been carted back and forth to CAMS and all that remains is to understand that he likes to be the big I Am when he is at home.

Take back control-show him who is boss. There would have been a tragedy averted in my family if someone had done this to my mum-a sibling running away and meeting an awful end-all because of the misery that one person liked to inflict.

I'm going to say to you OP something which I wish someone had said to my dad , "Don't let her poison your home. Don't let her terrorise the kids, The more you pander to her, the more she despises you. Don't let her set her wicked, wicked tone any more."

I'm saying it to you, especially as you have another child in the house and I sincerely hope you will develop a hard line with him because I very much doubt anything else will work. If he doesn't lie it well, tough shit. he has a choice. Behave or be treated like the little tyrant he is.

This is great advice. 👏
I'm so glad your son is now a lovely young man 💕

Very good points, @OneBookTooMany .
Some families are bullied by parents, siblings or children. I'm sorry that you went through that and it shouldn't happen.💐
It's important that the OP finds a way forward with this, and quickly.

Parenting a teen who hits 14 and gets a great big influx of hormones is a different ball game to parenting a compliant 12 year old. You have to focus on disliking his behaviour not him as it seems he is displaying a lot of self hatred.

maybe look at adhd characteristics and see if any apply? Anxiety is a side affect so he could be constantly experiencing that. Cahms are so over whelmed and prioritise cases so your son may not be getting what he needs from them. I would suggest exploring sessions with a psychologist (not counselling as they don’t have degrees) and pay privately. He and you will get through it.