Overheard ds's inappropriate conversation with friend

[blubberball]

DS is 14 and neuro divergent. He's quite immature for his age, and is like a younger child in his manner. I usually hear him talk to his friend about games, but last night I overheard him say to his friend on the phone "How many times did your dick go hard whilst you were talking to her?" I was a bit shocked to hear him talking to his friend like that, so I told him to say bye to his friend. It was time for his screens to go off any way, and I take his technology every night and lock it away. He seemed a bit mortified that I'd heard him say that, and cleaned his teeth and went straight to bed. He usually faffs around for an hour after screens off. I told him not to ask his friend that. A little while later, I went into his room to talk about misogyny. He didn't know what it was. I told him it's treating women and girls badly, and I said that girls aren't objects. He was embarrassed and just wanted to go to sleep. He was turned away and didn't want to talk. I thought it was important to say something.

Is this just a normal thing for teenage boys to say to their mates? I don't want him to feel shame about normal feelings of being attracted to the opposite sex, and erections. But I also want to protect girls from this attitude from boys. How do I manage this going forward? I'm planning on having more little conversations about misogyny now and then. Does anyone please have any experience with this?

It's not about that. You're naive if you think "how many times did your dick get hard whilst you were talking to her?" is normal healthy conversation about puberty. It's very clearly banter and maybe the other boy was uncomfortable being asked about his penis by his friend.

I think that’s normal chat between teen boys tbh. Yes you can talk to him about misogyny and respect, but if he’s not talking derogatorily about girls then I don’t see the issue.
Maybe it was a bit direct asking the question, so if just say some guys may not want to talk about their dicks (but most would I expect!).

Scoring a girl out of 10 is completely different to discussing a normal, healthy, involuntary bodily function.

If having and discussing an erection is made out to be misogynistic then the poor boy will assume he's a misogynist, but he cant help it, his body made him do it, the girl made him do it, and look how close we get to some really toxic male narratives.

Talk to the kid. Don't make him feel guilty.

You sound rather condescending

Of course it’s disrespectful and crude to speak like that. And a far cry off of normal inquisitive teen questions. It’s the objectifying girls into sex objects type of chat that does indeed lead to misogyny and the toxic masculinity so damaging to our boys and our society.
I have two sons- one adult and one teen- and a husband and I can honestly say I’d be shocked and disgusted if I ever heard them say such things.

Omg. Shame on you OP. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with what your son said to his friend. It’s absolutely normal. How is that related to misogyny?? Erections are completely normal and it’s a normal thing for your son to mention it to his friend.

Well done for making him feel thoroughly embarrassed and mortified. Well done for being ‘that parent’.

absolutely shameful.

How to make your kid feel like he’s scum in a second….

Considering you confused most of use on the link between what he said and misogyny
dread to think what message you have sent to him
you got it wrong

Yeah you got this one wrong and probably confused him.

YABU. I have a 14 yo. I really can't see this as a problem. I'd of pretended I hadn't heard.
Sorry OP but you've messed up here. Your chat about misogyny was totally misplaced.

I agree with this.

Misogyny is a problem but I don't think it's connected here.

Hopefully he'll keep having those conversations but more privately in future.

Our generation had the luxury of face to face friendships where our parents weren't constantly earwigging!

They are young lads learning about the world.

If we were talking about grown men I'd agree with you.

Well, I personally do remember how my teenage friends and I talked about our bodies and development at that age, and we did talk about the mechanics of stuff like getting wet quite explicitly because it was completely new to us and we wanted to make sure that we were "normal". Apart from one of us, none of us were actually having sex or even going out with anyone. It was purely about what our bodies were doing.

This is one of those situations where I don't think using the word "child", which can mean anyone from 0 to 15 years 11 months, is particularly helpful. A six year old asking another six year old this question would be a huge safeguarding issue because it would suggest that the six year old is being exposed to abusive and sexualised behaviour. A 14 year old asking another 14 year old about it is a teen who has started getting erections and is subtly checking the normality of their own physical response to people they're attracted to.

Interesting replies, and reflective of the two minds I'm in. I was obviously a little bit shocked to hear him talk like that to his friend, when I've only ever heard them talk about games in the past. For context, I would describe it as laddy banter. I could only hear snippets leading up to it. My ds saying No, I've already got a girlfriend..... But you like her don't you..... How many times did your dick get hard whilst talking to her?... Was when I came in and said Who are you talking to? Well it's time to say bye. You don't ask your friend that.

I went in later and talked to him a bit about women and girls being human beings and not objects.

In my mind I was thinking Is this just the way normal teenage boys talk? Obviously I don't want to shame him for normal teenage feelings and urges, but otoh, I don't think it's appropriate for them to be discussing a young girl in terms of how many times did your dick get hard talking to her? I don't think her parents would be happy for her to be spoken about like that. I don't think his parents would be happy for him to be talking about a girl like that. He's a year younger than my son as well, and also neuro divergent.

Would people just minimise this talk as laddy banter? It just seems a slippery slope

I think I would probably have tried to duck away before he realised I had heard, and maybe later initiated a chat about being respectful to and about girls and women generally that wasn't specifically linked to the conversation I had overheard.

If they both have ASD diagnoses and some social communication issues alongside that then I can see why you're on alert, and the topic is important, but I would probably have handled it differently.

Since when did watching Adolescence become the cure all for teenage boys?

I would have kept the 2 issues separate. You can’t control how he talks to his mates, so I would have kept out of that and pretended not to hear as it will have been very embarrassing for him. Separately I would start introducing the concept of respectful communication, the societal consequences of inappropriate banter etc at a general level as part of ongoing family discussions, not personal to him. Very much work in progress over a number of years for such a complex and nuanced topic.

This is normal teenage boy behaviour. You have shamed your DS for no good reason, you've potentially created an 'issue' for him when expressing his sexuality, and it's likely he'll no longer trust to confide in you.

Well done, OP.

Is this just a normal thing for teenage boys to say to their mates?

Yes

I don't want him to feel shame about normal feelings of being attracted to the opposite sex, and erections.

Bit late for that now, he obviously did.

It was actually time for his screens to go off any way, so that's why I was heading to his bedroom door at 9pm and overheard the phone conversation. The thing is, if I'd have ducked out and pretended that I hadn't heard, how long would this conversation had carried on for and how much worse would it have got? It was one of those moments where I did react instinctively without thinking. Just Woah ok! Time to say bye

He's taking the piss out of his mate! His mate is clearly reluctant to admit that he likes this girl, so your DS is giving him a friendly ribbing over it!

I think you messed up, OP.

Good God, though, he'll live - OP hasn't broken her son. We all cock things up with our kids all the time and frequently have no idea we've done it for years!

I think it’s normal in the early stages of puberty for teens to ‘check’ with their friends that their bodies are behaving in the same way! I don’t see the misogyny in it.

My conversation with him would have been around ensuring the other person is comfortable with that sort of conversation.

I think you have hopefully made him think twice about the way him and his friends talk about girls.
Maybe this is how they talk about girls but it's pretty disrespectful.
There's an onslaught of sexualised harassment towards girls in school and it's got to start somewhere - with boys seeing girls as objects.

I take it you don’t have a teenage boy 🤣 it’s their main topic of conversation