Overheard ds's inappropriate conversation with friend

[blubberball]

DS is 14 and neuro divergent. He's quite immature for his age, and is like a younger child in his manner. I usually hear him talk to his friend about games, but last night I overheard him say to his friend on the phone "How many times did your dick go hard whilst you were talking to her?" I was a bit shocked to hear him talking to his friend like that, so I told him to say bye to his friend. It was time for his screens to go off any way, and I take his technology every night and lock it away. He seemed a bit mortified that I'd heard him say that, and cleaned his teeth and went straight to bed. He usually faffs around for an hour after screens off. I told him not to ask his friend that. A little while later, I went into his room to talk about misogyny. He didn't know what it was. I told him it's treating women and girls badly, and I said that girls aren't objects. He was embarrassed and just wanted to go to sleep. He was turned away and didn't want to talk. I thought it was important to say something.

Is this just a normal thing for teenage boys to say to their mates? I don't want him to feel shame about normal feelings of being attracted to the opposite sex, and erections. But I also want to protect girls from this attitude from boys. How do I manage this going forward? I'm planning on having more little conversations about misogyny now and then. Does anyone please have any experience with this?

Im not sure anyone has said otherwise have they. Many of us have said this is his way and possibly his friends way of saying do you fancy her, I fancy her, or I dont fancy her, or how do I know I fancy her or any number of observations

Guess what, people do think about othe rpeople in a sexual way. I think you're the naive one if you dont understand human sexuality. This is just starting out for them

Would you say the same if it was two girls talking about a boy one of them fancied and one of them asked the other "So did talking to him make you blush?"

In both cases, it's not about the member of the opposite sex, it's a gentle piss-take about their friend being unable to talk to a member of the opposite sex without having an involuntary reaction to it.

Unfortunately, boys involuntary reactions are just a bit more overtly obvious.

I agree.

I haven't got an issue with his bodily functions. I've got an issue with his attitude to objectifying women and girls

But he hasn't done that!

Oh God no. She needs to earn his trust back! Not to imply he is a misogynist because they were discussing sexual arousal. They might also think the girl is lovely intelligent and funny. It's completely normal to talk about this kind of thing with your mates at school. She's had a total overreaction, embarrassed and shamed him. Now you're suggesting she hovers over him when his friend is over and assesses the other families culture. Just let the poor lad be. He's not going to ever feel comfortable discussing sex with her now is he.

What does he do and say that tells you he does this?

Ok so obviously something else quite bad has happened that you've not mentioned.

It’s not devaluing anyone- it is perfectly normal (if not always comfortable) for teenagers to find others attractive and to discuss that with friends.

Teenage girls will also have very similar conversations about male classmates.

There is a degree of objectification inherent in our society though, of both sexes. Sexual attraction is perfectly normal. What do you think Love Island is about?

That does not mean that every teenage boy who discusses a girl’s looks is a raging misogynist. Teenage girls who discuss how fit Harry Styles is also aren’t huge misandrists.

Noooo!

You are SO wrong here.

The point is he IS 14 and not 20.

I assume you have no sons or have never spent much time with young teen boys.

It is not devaluing the girl.
You need to look up the definition of misogyny. It is not the same as having 'rude thoughts at 14' about a girl.

The term misogyny becomes devalued if it's used wrongly. It's a very serious term to call out terrible behaviour.

It's not a word to use when a lad of 14 has a sexual fantasy about a girl he knows.

By the same token would you say a boy or man who looks at an image of a naked or beautiful woman and feels a stirring in his loins is a misogynist?

Should we ban all paintings of women from art galleries in case they cause men to feel aroused? Are those artists' models being objectified? Are the artists misogynists? Where does your opinion end?

It's ridiculous to suggest that boys who talk about their sexual responses (to a mate) will become misogynists at 20.

Does no one remember blind date?

For all the jokes about Cillas hat at the weddings, it was about picking someone who came up to scratch.

Don't you mean Naked Attraction ? 😂

He's being a typical 14 year old, you shouldn't have let him know you heard, it's lads talk. There was nothing misogynist about it.

Sometimes I feel like some people live in cloud cuckoo land. What red blooded young man isn't going to talk about which girls they think are fit.

Honestly it sounds like you just freaked out at the thought of him having sexual feelings, which is a very motherly response.

Sometimes I worry this version of "feminism" is leading us to bring up our children with exactly the same level of repression and shame as devout religiosity used to instill in generations of children.

He isn't objectifying women though. He is talking about sexual arousal in a way that is normal for his age. His friend fancies this girl which maybe for more than just the way she looks. He could well be attracted to for a number of reasons. Young boys get erections and discuss it with their friends, he doesn't want to discuss such with his mother. Only if he was saying something derogatory against the girl or suggesting taking advantage of her, should you have stepped in. He was probably just teasing his friend about it. He's not going to come to you with any sex questions now is he, not now you've shamed him and suggested he is a misogynist.

I am not a prude but erections are a private thing and i think this kind of lads talk is disrespectful and objectifying. Then again perhaps im oversensitive? It's not that I believe all boys are potential misogynists and perverts but there is a rape culture and porn culture today amongst kids- child on child abuse is a thing.

The reply from @Tunacheesequesadilla Is ironic considering the Mumsnet is full of women describing the state of their Vagina’s.

You're definitely being oversensitive as what happened here is in no way connected to misogyny, perverts, rape, porn, or child abuse.

Yes when women do it it's supposedly empowering and we're all supposed to be the leaky menstruation sisters together in a dove advert or something. But god forbid a young man mention getting an erection to a friend.

That is not the same thing at all though. That isn't talking about someone in a sexually objective way. The boy in question could have asked "Do you find her really attractive/do you like her?" and that would be fine.

What a completely realistic way for teen boys to talk to each other.

Very much this, the way some posters (who are not exactly representative of real life I know) talk about how everything is a bloody red flag, or somethings abusive, or someone is 'inappropriate' or any number of apparent wrong doings, of everyone, not just men, although particularly men, makes me worry for children of both sexes. They will not be able to navigate normal human interactions, will be frightened of giving someone a hug, asking someone out, making a play for someone, going to visit someone and ringing their doorbell!!!

Maybe. I am probably making a big deal over very little. I am sure the OP's son meant no harm, I just dont like the way women are seen as pieces of meat? FWIW, I feel the same way about girls talking about boys in a crude way too. It just seems that this kind of banter is very acceptable these days. there was no need to be so graphic.

Jesus, that is not teenagers language

Do you hear many girls even talking that way?

Do you find him attractive, lol