Overheard ds's inappropriate conversation with friend

[blubberball]

DS is 14 and neuro divergent. He's quite immature for his age, and is like a younger child in his manner. I usually hear him talk to his friend about games, but last night I overheard him say to his friend on the phone "How many times did your dick go hard whilst you were talking to her?" I was a bit shocked to hear him talking to his friend like that, so I told him to say bye to his friend. It was time for his screens to go off any way, and I take his technology every night and lock it away. He seemed a bit mortified that I'd heard him say that, and cleaned his teeth and went straight to bed. He usually faffs around for an hour after screens off. I told him not to ask his friend that. A little while later, I went into his room to talk about misogyny. He didn't know what it was. I told him it's treating women and girls badly, and I said that girls aren't objects. He was embarrassed and just wanted to go to sleep. He was turned away and didn't want to talk. I thought it was important to say something.

Is this just a normal thing for teenage boys to say to their mates? I don't want him to feel shame about normal feelings of being attracted to the opposite sex, and erections. But I also want to protect girls from this attitude from boys. How do I manage this going forward? I'm planning on having more little conversations about misogyny now and then. Does anyone please have any experience with this?

That isn’t much different to one girl asking another girl about menstruation. Barring adolescents from talking about natural body functions seems like a retrograde step to me.

Imo, it's very different, as I said up thread. I appreciate I'm in the minority though.

Oh my goodness boys of that age talk about their penises & sexual feelings & masturbation all the time. It is perfectly normal. If I were you I would be really concerned that you have shamed & confused & humiliated a vulnerable young person about something that is entirely normal - & thereby discouraged open communication & made an unhealthy attitude to relationships & sexuality more likely rather than less!

I am not sure what to suggest. Being a single female parent of boys is hard (I am one) but the issue here seems to be that you have been encouraged to think that any discussion by teenage boys of their own developing sexuality is misogyny. It is not. You need to learn how to make better judgements about what misogyny really is- but how to do that is the question.

If it were me I might apologise, say I got it wrong & am sorry to have invaded his privacy. But that kind of depends on your relationship with him.

One thing I find particularly sad about this is that of course actual misogyny is a real problem. Violence, threats, rape, discrimination, sexual exploitation. But labelling innocuous interactions like this as misogyny- crying wolf when a sparrow hops onto the scene- makes the fight against the real wolf, real misogyny, much harder.

I think if the other boy were encouraging the girl to talk dirty down the phone or something and then reporting details back to his mates, that would be misogyny, but this isn't.

For what it’s worth, I think you handled it appropriately.

At this point, move on but maybe if the other boy comes to your home, keep them a bit more supervised than you would have previously, until they earn your trust back.

Maybe also try to meet the other kids mum so you can gauge their family culture.

Anything to do with kids and sexual stuff is yack when you first encounter it as a parent! But it's just that, a bit yack. Teenage boys are gross and horny. I'd just accept you've moved from patenting fart and poo jokes to the next phase and largely ignore it tbh!

Yes, I was just challenging the “it's generally not appropriate to ask about your friends genitals” comment.

YABU - I say these a bit of a precious mum of girls 😆

It's normal too get an errection but you shamed the poor guys. You should have said that you accidentally overheard him and his friend talking and wile it may be cringe to talk with you about this topic you have something you want to say about it. Then you should have said, it's completely normal to have a physical reaction including errection when talking to girls especially at your age but that these things need to be handled discretely and with appropriately. In the privacy of his own 4 walls he can think about this but its not something to talk casually with other about as this actually objectifies girls and women and is not acceptable. You could have asked him how he'd feel if lads talk this way about you, his mother or if anyone referred to him in an objectifying and reductive way.

Shaming is not a good idea. Help him manage it don't make him feel bad.

What?? Menstruation is not sexual. Are you out of your mind?

Its as natural a function as an erection, and as natural to talk about it. That was the posters point. As clearly stated.

But you knew that.

No I am not out of my mind. And I did not say menstruation is sexual. I said menstruation and erections are normal bodily functions. Is there something going on with your mind that makes you twist people’s words to make yourself feel important?

I don't see how that challenges what I said.

You have taught your son that it's misogynistic to experience sexual attraction.

Oh ffs this is why kids are being vilified or told they are wrong all the time. This is not misogyny and its not abnormal its actually a completely normal banter conversation between teenage boys. I dont think op was right at all telling him to say goodbye to his friend and turning his tech off because he did absolutely nothing wrong.

My God your poor kid. Of course boys will talk about intimate things with their friends just as girls do. For you to jump in and humiliate him then rant on about a completely unrelated subject of misogyny just beggers belief. He'll not forget this humiliation ever.

Let kids be kids and discuss their intimate issues between friends in private.

And both at that age are unavoidable involuntary reactions.

They may be normal-they are-but you don’t talk to your friends like that!

So called “locker room sexual banter” is definitely not what we should be teaching our sons. People pretending to understand it as a criticism of normal sexual feelings are trying to manipulate the conversation.

I think you meant "i didn't talk to friends like that"

Its very, very extremely normal to do so though, particularly at that age.

I’m not sure that it is. It’s right to criticise it, and it helps create a misogynistic culture.

How do you feel about having his phone in his room OP? I say that without judgement. My child isn’t old enough yet anyway, but I know lots of parents who don’t allow phones or gaming in the bedroom.

Can you explain this a bit more? I don't understand what you mean.

Years ago there was no easy access to porn because the web didn't exist. Nor could boys engage with people like the Tates.

However, 'locker room sexual banter' has existed since the start of civilisation going back to Greek and Roman times. Shakespeare, Plato, Sophocles etc is full of 'locker room sexual banter' and is studied by men and women across the world in schools and universities.

No one is 'teaching' their sons to have 'locker room sexual banter'.

I assume you may be from the US as 'locker room' is not a phrase used in the UK.

It is absolutely normal.

But if you mean criticising youngsters from taking part in this normal dialogue helps create a misogynistic culture, I think youre right. If kids dont know what feelings and physical changes they are experiencing is normal by talking to their peers, they'll turn to other sources, which will likely be very harmful.

Meanwhile, there's Andrew Tate et al pushing a brand of total amoral masculine shamelessness over all sorts of channels that parents are largely unaware of and unable to control. I think all adults (not just women!) need to be very careful about distinguishing conversations about sex where there's a certain amount of anxiety disguised by bravado, which is what I think was going on here, and conversations where women are talked about abusively and dangerously, which I do not think was happening here.

(No, I genuinely am not saying and do not think that OP has turned her son into an incel, I think there have to be lots of things in the mix for that and most boys like their mums and think that Andrew Tate is a tit. I just think there's a case for helping parents with how they approach these things generally.)

You may not but other people do.

I have close friends who have talked openly about their sexual experiences with various partners, their orgasms or lack of them, their pubes going grey.....

Are they wrong too?