Can't cope with teenagers any more

[Springhare76]

Just that really. I have DS1, 17 and DS2, 15 years (plus DS3 who is 7). I have basically raised DS1 and 2 singlehandedly since my ex had an affair and moved out when they were 1 and 3 years. I've worked full time their entire childhoods to give them the best I can, a lovely house that I own, clothes, 2-3 holidays per year, private school and yet they have turned out to be horrible, uncaring people who seem to hate me. They literally have nothing to say to me, reply with phrases like, "what are you talking about?" if I ask anything about them, imply I am stupid etc. They come and go as they want, order Deliveroo all the time, don't tidy their rooms and hardly clear up after themselves, plus constantly have friends over. They go out and never tell me where they are and never answer their phones so I worry constantly where they are. They use my gym membership and DS2 uses my debit card. I want to take them on holiday this summer but they both refuse as they want to hang out with their friends. DS2 plays a lot of football so I drive him to endless football matches - he never says thank you and tell me I'm embarrassing him if I watch the game. He'll glare at me if I ask him something and refuse to answer. None of the other players are like this and all seem kind to their mums. I also drive him to school every day as his school is far away, it takes me 30 mins then and 50 on the way back. Again, never a please or thank you. The older one has ADHD and we have had the roughest few years with a permanent school exclusion, failed managed move and then having to get tutors in every subject to get him to do any revision as he refused to do any if left to his own devices. I have battled to keep him in education but he has no motivation and his attendance is less than 50%. He now goes out most nights at 11pm to 12pm and comes back around 3am. Apparently he is playing basketball then goes to the gym. I fell asleep at 1am last night then woke up at 3am and realised he was out of the house. He came back at 3.30am then stayed up until 6am so obviously then missed the entire day of sixth room as he's asleep. I couldn't get back to sleep after that so have been awake since 3am. I basically went crazy at him and told him he needs to go and live with his dad as I cannot take this anymore. I have put a bar on his phone as it's the only influence I have , that and money. What did I do wrong in raising them? I am heartbroken that it has come to this. I don't see a way I can have a relationship with either of them again given the amount of unkindness and disrespect.

This sounds horrific.

Personally I would have a reset.

Write out a contract or schedule of expectations.

Explain the deal.

Stick to it.

Put restrictions on WiFi, phone time, screen time, bank cards and payment apps.

Transfer an allowance per month into their accounts that they have access to and do not give them anything more.

Have a list of basic chores and tasks that must be completed before deduction to screen time and allowances.

Lifts, clubs, matches are all privileges and can be withdrawn if behaviour isn't in line with the expectations.

Things you may want to consider in the list of expectations:

Basic manners and pleasantries at all times in the house - greeting each other, thanking each other,.asking politely.
Beds made
Laundry brought downstairs/into basket
Clean clothes away
Coats hung up. Shoes away
All plates and cutlery in the dishwasher
Dishwasher to be emptied whenever clean
Pets cared for before own breakfast etc
School attendance every day
No use of phone in school hours or 22-06.00
No friends without prior agreement - unexpected guests will be asked to leave or parents contacted (could be on certain days or within certain times)
Mandatory Life 360 on phones and only put after 8pm with prior discussion

I would (and do) pull my DC up Every. Single. Time they are rude. No slack, no leeway. Every single time, "I beg your pardon? Would you speak to others the way you have just spoken to me? Please think about what you have just said and how you have said it and try again"

Thanks Galatic, all good ideas but they basically do what they want. I can't even get their phones off them to try and install life360 or anything else. And what if they don't comply? There is no stick to beat them with. I actually called Social Services earlier to see if I could put them into care as I can't take it any more and I need to be able to sleep.

Needless to say, Social Services won't take them. I am wondering if I can move out and get a nanny or someone to move in. I just don't think I can take any more. It's like they're trying to destroy me.

The only person's behaviour you can change is yours.

They will change when you change.

Walking away from your relationship with them will have life-long consequences.

You are also really tired at the moment, and sleep deprived, and stressed. Can you get some help in?

You have allowed this to happen; you can also change it. Will it be hard? Yes, absolutely.

You are not managing on your own. There is no shame in that. Get help: figure out what help you need and then figure out how to get it.

Lay the law down and stick to it.
school trips but nothing else.
enforced house duties
it will get easier but you must harden up now

Realise their father is your ex, but sounds like these are two boys who need an older authoritative but understanding man to parent them. They are looking for some kind of boundary and to work out where they are in the hierarchy. Sounds like they think they’re the boss of the house at home.

can their father step in and help you?

They won’t give you their phones? Go into their bedrooms and night and take them away until they comply and treat you with respect. Ask their teachers what their behaviour is like at school. Stop giving them lifts everywhere. Do not give them access to your cards. They’ll hate it and probably be horrible about it, but explain that you are done with the lack of respect from them. You can always tell your eldest DS to move out if he wants to get his own way, but he has to fund himself if he does so. Time to get harsh OP!

I have asked him in the past and learn not to as he never helps. He will say he want to and then offer to have them for one night next month then use it as an excuse to put me down or try to impose additional obligations on me. Plus they will refuse to go and we'll have him outside with them in their rooms refusing to go.

There is a few things here that I would do, but I feel like you need to get your head round teenagers?

Do you think you are still trying to parent them as if they were younger? And that's where some of the disrespectful behaviour comes from ?

Anyway if I was stepping into your household I would be putting a stop on my debit card, no more deliveroo. And locking the door. If he can't get in at curfew (I would be putting that at 11.30pm) then sleep elsewhere.

Sit down with each child and say I respect you, can you tell me your behaviour is acceptable towards me ? How can we have a better relationship?

Stuff like that...

Er, not at all! They have a huge amount or freedom and leeway and I don't interfere in their lives at all so not sure how I am not treating them as teenagers. I try to talk to them and say, how are you today, or a simple question to make conversation, and get a grunt, which is fine if it was that in isolation. Their behaviour seems way less respectful than how their friends are with me and their parents as I have witnessed this first hand. I don't think wanting to know where they are, which is for safety and practical reasons (what time to make dinner etc) is inappropriate for teenagers.

Well I agree, I was just asking if that was the case.

I had a big blow up with my oldest dc about respect and we tea had it out and I have to say it got better after that as I don't think he had truly thought about how he was speaking to me

Really had it out

I get you are exhausted but you need to be strong and put in boundaries. Give pocket money and once that is gone they get no more. Take away the debit card. Only give lifts if they are pleasant and respectful, if not simply do not take them. Do not pay for takeaways. Learn to ignore some stuff so messy rooms let go, being rude you calmly react to and tell them to stop. In all honesty they are being typical teenagers who sound spoilt but only you can stop giving as much as you are.

Some of this sounds normal, i.e.:

They come and go as they want.
(but, yes they should update you with where they are going/when they will be done)

Order Deliveroo all the time
OK maybe not ALL the time but quite normal for teenagers. They should work and pay for it themselves.

Don't tidy their rooms and hardly clear up after themselves
Normal . I have learned not to go into their rooms and they have therefore learned to tidy them!

Constantly have friends over.
Something I have always encouraged, why would this be a problem?

They go out and never tell me where they are and never answer their phones so I worry constantly where they are.
Not on. Disrespectful.

They use my gym membership and DS2 uses my debit card.
How have they obtained these? Remove them.

I want to take them on holiday this summer but they both refuse as they want to hang out with their friends.
Fine, understandable.

DS2 plays a lot of football so I drive him to endless football matches - he never says thank you and tell me I'm embarrassing him if I watch the game. He'll glare at me if I ask him something and refuse to answer. None of the other players are like this and all seem kind to their mums.
I wouldn't expect a thank you for taking him to matches. I used to love watching my son play football and would ignore him being embarrassed by this.

I also drive him to school every day as his school is far away, it takes me 30 mins then and 50 on the way back. Again, never a please or thank you.
Again, I wouldn't expect a thank you for this. It would view it as my duty as a parent to get him to school if it isn't local.

The older one now goes out most nights at 11pm to 12pm and comes back around 3am. Apparently he is playing basketball then goes to the gym. I fell asleep at 1am last night then woke up at 3am and realised he was out of the house. He came back at 3.30am then stayed up until 6am so obviously then missed the entire day of sixth room as he's asleep.
This is a worry. One of my children did go through a phase of meeting his friends in town in the middle of the night. Always came straight home when I woke up and realised. The phase stopped.

What did I do wrong in raising them?
Don't be so hard on yourself. You have worked really hard.
It won't be a popular opinion but I would lower my expectations; stop expecting so much effort and gratitude from them. You won't get it all the time you ask for it. They may see you as constantly on their case about having friends over, not thanking you, not tidying their rooms etc.. And they will rebel against this. Give them less to rebel against and let them be.

They do need to understand how important it is that you know where they are.

You didn’t do anything wrong raising them, op. Life experiences and personality sometimes combine in an unfortunate way and it’s hard to enforce boundaries with two parents, let alone on your own. It sounds incredibly hard and I know how intractable situations like this can feel, but I’m pretty sure that the other teens you encounter are not always the paragons of virtue you imagine, when you’re not around!

Money will usually be the main driver with recalcitrant teens. You can put your foot down with that for a start. Free rein with your debit card has to stop. How is 17 year old affording to go out every night, and order Deliveroo? Block their seemingly endless income stream. 17 year old could look for a part-time job. Why can’t ds2 use public transport to get to school and matches? If you do drive him to matches don’t even feign an interest in watching. Go off for a walk/look round nearest town/flask of coffee and a podcast in the car.

A pp was right, the best way to change things is by altering the only thing you can control, which is your own response. If you’ve had enough, you need to leave them in no doubt through your actions, rather than bottling it all up and exploding every so often. You need to show them that you have reached you limit. Hope things improve soon, op.

Thank you, that's actually really helpful. I do get that a lot of it is normal which is why I have put up with it for the most part but what is breaking me is DS1 going out all night and repeatedly missing school, making me miss a night's sleep, and also the fact that DS2 just seems to hate me. I agree about the lifts to and from school, especially as the school was our choice and he would rather go to the local state school which is 5 minutes away, and I also love taking him to matches to it really isn't a chore. It just hurts when I see the other boys sometimes say a nice word to their mum as he never does that. Just feel that I have given everything to them and they used to be such sweet boys and all that has gone.

The comment about friends was that I try to let them have their own space to socialise and hang out - it's not that they are not allowed to do what they want. Their friends are all lovely. Again, just feels like I am way more flexible on that front than other parents and get a hard time in return.

First post nailed it

Who's in charge here, op??? You are the parent. Parent.

The curse of modern parenting. My mum would had slapped me for that behaviour. I'd have had nothing ever again.

Just abandon them. Especially the 17 yo. He's nearly an adult. Time to learn. Theyre on their own. No money from you other than school essentials, no lifts, no pocket money, no nothing. They can do all their own laundry and if they have no clean clothes left they better sort it.

Act as if you care as little as they do.

Take the 7 year old away for a holiday and abandon the pair of them.

I think one problem is that in the absence of their dad you are having to be everything to them. The authority figure they push back against, as well as the supporter, cheerleader etc Its a huge amount as one person. If you've reached the point of calling social care, is there any way instead you could see if your ex could move in and you go somewhere else for a few weeks? Explain to him how much they need their dad.

Failing that, stop their money, phone and gym contracts, cold turkey. Hard conversation that they're gone until they step up at home and are respectful. They can't be feeling good about themselves, they know they are out of control.

As someone else said, a lot of it is normal, some needs to be dialled back, and they need to step up.

Just feel that I have given everything to them and they used to be such sweet boys and all that has gone.

It hasn’t… it’s all part of the necessary process of growing up and separation. Maybe complicated by their feelings about their Dad, and the earlier separation from him? Some teenagers manage to navigate all this with good grace, others not so much, but they usually all come through it in the end, and rediscover a much-missed equilibrium!

How do they have access to so much money? Deliveroo? Debit cards? You have the power to stop that!

I loved the monosyllabic grunt phase, rather adorable.
I’d double check the rude behavior is limited to you, most teens know to be kind/polite to others (other than parents).

You can stop them using your money.
Cancel the debit cards right now.
Stop giving them any money you are giving them.
How to they pay for deliveroo. How do they get anywhere without your permission? Taxi? Again, who’s paying?
Stop buying the clothes.
Who’s paying for the phones??

I would say unless they contact you while out or agree to life 360 you will report them as missing to the police after 11.30pm. I imagine it would be quite embarrassing to be picked up by the police because your mum wants you home.