13-year old bumping into me in the kitchen

[Jarstastic]

This seems a small thing compared to some of the drama from an elder sibling, but it’s getting me down.

13-year old son will want something from a drawer or cupboard (usually in the kitchen but sometimes in another room) and if I’m standing in front of it, he opens it regardless! Like I’m not there. I have reiterated it over and over. he says sorry. I have previously said sorry doesn’t mean anything without changed behaviour.

He has now started saying excuse me, but then carries on regardless, doesn’t wait for me to respond or move. I’m not sure if he does this to other people as others aren’t around so much these days.

He did it again yesterday, opened dishwasher when I was in front of it and I got bashed by it. His father was at the kitchen table and told him, he said sorry and his father said it’s not good enough to say sorry anymore, you’re doing it regularly. You are a big boy (he is now a few inches taller than me and fairly solid), stop barging in. He is a tad childish for his age.

10 minutes later (!) he said excuse me but then opened cupboard door into me. I got upset and said you didn’t even give me one second to move. Father heard it, came in and was not impressed and took him to another room, had a serious chat with him, then sent him to bed.

This morning, I was in the kitchen stirring milk into my coffee, he comes into the kitchen gets a bowl out of the bowl cupboard, then comes over to where I’m standing, opens the drawer with spoons, straight into my stomach!!

eh?

hardly! I already explained about yesterday evening. This morning I was just getting coffee when he came downstairs. He could have waited (or got a spoon from the dishwasher 5 feet away which is what he did, unprompted, after our shared look after he bashed the drawer into me). I was in the kitchen max 4 minutes, maybe one minute 1 minute crossing over with him.

I do spend more time than others in the kitchen cleaning surfaces etc but not relevant this morning.

My husband does this and it makes me so fucking cross. It seems like such a petty thing to have an argument about, but I find it so demoralising. Can't even be bothered to say excuse me, just tries to bat me out the way with a cupboard door. The amount of times I've argued with him about it and he looks all hurt and offended, and like I'm nuts for even making a big deal out of it. But when you've said time and time again not to do it and they still do, just makes it even worse. I walk out the kitchen now when he comes in, to avoid any arguments as I know he won't stop doing it. This, I know isn't healthy. At least your husband can see that your son is wrong and is on your side with trying to curb his behaviour op.

Whether it’s intentional and he just doesn’t care or whether it’s just unconscious teenage behavior I’d keep on at him regardless to correct his ways. It’s the only way kids learn.

This isn’t adhd or dyspraxia. It’s about dominance and testing boundaries with women - he isn’t doing it to his dad and he isn’t doing it at school or to his mates or to someone bigger than him is he? I would start supervising his internet access as I’d worry he was on manosphere type forums - learning misogyny early doors. Teenage boys now aren’t quite as young or innocent now as they were before the prevalence of social media. Ignoring these little behavioural flags now will just lead to him believing physical dominance and ignoring boundaries with women is acceptable. With some teenagers you do need to raise your voice and instil a bit of fear for consequences of poor behaviour - he’s one of them but young enough to learn and change.

True

But now you can't see it

A gentleman is never served breakfast

Make him wait on a thinking spot until the kitchen is empty. He knows he’s doing it. He’s not being careless or thoughtless, he just thinks it’s ok to bowl into people.

Really? That's what you got from this situation?

Really?

You need to book a slot to cook, clean and sort for the family?

Because I bet no-one else is doing any of those

Take him through a few ‘practice sessions’ of opening a draw/cupboard with you in front of it and make each step numbered and clear. See how he manages that.

You've chastised him a lot, I think the next step is practicing. He talks through the steps:
I want a spoon from the drawer.
I go to the drawer.
Mum is standing there.
I say, "Scuse me mum"
I count to three and wait for mum to step back.
I open the drawer.
I get my spoon.

He practices with you. Several times.

Repeat in slightly different situations until he gets the rhythm.

I think a lot of men don't really notice women in space and are inconsiderate in the sense of just barging through whatever they want to do and expecting the woman to figure out how to get out of their way. like they don't even see you there.

It's like the guy who comes in while you are watching tv and turns it to his channel without asking if that's ok with you.

There was quite a steep learning curve in my house too in that period where ds got bigger and stronger than me and had to learn how to manage himself differently, while emotionally and developmentally he was still lagging behind.

It was like watching a puppy crashing into chairs that he was able to run under a week before!

You realise he’s deliberately assaulting you, don’t you??

You need to sit him down - both you and your husband and tell him he is not to touch either one of you or assault either one of you.

You need to escalate this.

My DS has ADHD and making him start again does help with awareness.
He also does this and I'd be blocking him with my arm or similar - just to interrupt his flow. He'll usually say "oops" and ask or wait if it's something we've talked to him about.
He doesn't completely remember every time but it's helpful.

Didn’t mention booking a slot anywhere…

And it sounds like the son in question is actually doing quite a bit in the kitchen.. that’s the issue.

This won’t apply to all families.

But there are some people who spend a huge amount of their time in the kitchen mainly due to a love of cooking / placing a high priority on cleaning. They can unintentionally make it hard for other people to get in. Especially if it’s a small kitchen.

Only OP would know if that applies to their family. It was just worth considering.

Does he have any other issues with space and co ordination? Dyspraxia maybe?

I posted above but realise thread has got long, I’ve since spoken to his older brother who says he has done it to him.

It could definitely be ADHD. Lack of spacial awareness, doing things distractedly. The when he is being told off, seeking reassurance by hugging you (rejection sensitive dysphoria).
You have tried punishment, and it has not worked, so it looks like you need to look deeper into the 'why'. Before you escalate, do have his assessed and look into ways to manage children with ADHD, as punishing someone for things that are beyond his control/caused by their disability can be very negative for one's self esteem and even cause trauma.

Lots of adults behave like this as microaggressions towards people they want to dominate in a "deniable" way.

They actually look to see where the other person is, then find an activity to do close to them and insist the other person moves.

I was at a toxic work site.

The bullies would look on the security cameras to see where a lone woman, or non-white person, was working

Then suddenly invent an urgent task right next to them that involved physically pushing them out of the way or insisting they immediately move or using noisy equipment which affected the other person's work.

(Think the equivalent of seeing if someone is quietly studying or watching TV and then deciding to Hoover next to them).

And of course it was very "deniable" because they were just doing their job and actually the person they had space invaded was being aggressive/sensitive.

It's nasty behaviour. Well done on you and your DH for observing and pulling him up on this OP.

Also assuming he can navigate the narrow confines of school toilets, sports class and changing rooms just fine - isn’t bashing into his male classmates? Or strangers on public transport or narrow pavements? You get the gist. Make sure he’s not accessing misogynistic forums and chat rooms and explain the importance of personal space with women and respecting their bodies. Much better than having the school and other parents involved if heaven forbid he does the same to a female classmate or teacher. I don’t think many people would excuse physical injury or assault because the boy could have adhd or dyspraxia or needs to get used to his body! There’s millions of teenage boys for millennia who manage to not keep bumping their mums. As his mum you know best if you can sense purpose rather than accident so don’t ignore your instinct.

He does the dishwasher 2-3 evenings at the weekend. Most of the time it happens is probably when I’m cooking late afternoon/early evening and he’s getting drinks or snacks. Or I’m doing the dishwasher after dinner and he wants a glass for a drink, I could move some things to outside the kitchen area maybe otherwise side of breakfast bar, but I feel he does need the skills to be able to share spaces and be respectful of other people.

He sounds like my nephew, right down to the forced hug thing. My sister could have written this post.

It is so at odds with his usually gentle and kind side. He was in mainstream school and doung well. He also showed signs of listening when corrected or even remorse. But ss he got older it got worse and we started noticing it in other things too.

Eventually, school started complaining. He was thoroughly investigated (thinking brain tumour or something), turns out he is autistic. He eventually had to be moved out of mainstream school.

I will say, get him assessed.
It will do no harm l. At least you could rule it in or out. It would help with knowing how to manage it.

Correcting this behaviour was hard in the beginning because he would just walk off and a few minutes later be back to do the same thing. Extremely short attention span.

Just seen this, is it the same sibling who also has his challenges? I assume you’d be able to see if he was doing it to his brother so would observe at home as his brother may want to protect him, and also when you’re out with him - how he holds himself in public.

Every time he does it, the internet is off for a week.

I'm sorry to say that this was very much my thought too. You know him best of course but the way you're telling this sounds possibly quite naive to my ears.

It is not normal to knowingly physically barge into someone in the first place, but at this point especially (after multiple discussions and upset) it seems very deliberate and nasty in an weird, passive aggressive way.

I have ADHD and dyspraxic men in my life and this is not that.

I know he's early teens but if this goes on this is how he will treat girlfriends. And any girl or woman with self-respect will leave him because of it. And if any of their fathers see him doing this to them...!

I would be going absolutely nuclear with consequences at this point - whatever that means for him. You don't need to lose your temper - in fact it's probably better that you don't - but he needs to feel immediate, unpleasant consequences for this every time, like a toddler. I think you're under-reacting in practical terms.