'I'm not cleaning toilets'

[boobashka]

I'm trying to encourage my 17 year old to get a weekend/ holiday job and have texted him a range of opportunities which I've found online. I asked him to chase up one which was cleaning camper vans to which he responded 'that's not the kind of thing I want to do - I'm not cleaning toilets'. This has really got my back up. Both myself and dh cleaned toilets, washed pots and pans, chambermaided, pulled pints etc as students. I'm annoyed that I've raised someone so entitled. Who does he think he is? Advice please?

I wouldn't want to either, now or when I was a teen. I did shop work when I was a teen, fairly clean!

My best mate (we both went to top private school and good uni's, both got good degrees) , late 90's worked cleaning public loos to supplement his student loan.

End of uni came and the rest of us were looking to start careers, I got my first teaching post. He meanwhile stayed on in digs, purchased a few vacuum cleaners and mop buckets and employed some first years and started getting some contract cleaning work.

Fast forward 26 years, he runs a very large and successful contract cleaning firm, he and his wife have just purchased a rather nice new house for 2.2M, but its a fixer upper so a budget of 1.2M to get it up to snuff.

Meanwhile I'm still a teacher in a semi, quite happy with my lot and happy for his success, but the moral for your son OP, where there's muck, there's brass.

Tbf I would have absolutely hated that as a teen.

I had this obnoxious remark said to me in my mid twenties, shocking, hostile, unpleasant, unnecessary.
Your son is hardly a beggar though is he? What you chose to do as a student
should not be his burden.
Cleaning camper vans / toilets is not an occupation many people would want
for their sons nor expect them to believe this was all they were worth.

Mine worked in a plant nurseries through most of the summer, cycled there
with a stack of sandwiches and drinks, out from dawn to dusk, low pay,
but learned to deal with the public constant questions, became knowledgeable about herbs, plants, worked in the rain and sun, learned patience and fortitude.

He was slim in June, by September he had muscles, a broader physique,
larger size boots, suntan.

Better than cleaning toilets. He had his own bathroom at home btw which he
kept clean along with his bedroom, no stranger to the bog brush.
I cannot imagine it happening, but if he had come home said, “I am going to clean toilets in a pub” then I would have thought I hadn’t brought him up to value his time better.
Before this, during 6th form, he worked Saturday evening in an upmarket restaurant, hard work, no breaks, good money, good fun, no cleaning! then out clubbing with the others. This enabled him to buy tech he ‘needed’ encouraged awareness, listening, speed of movement, all manner of essential skills when dealing with well heeled customers, good tips too.

Your son might thrive in this esprit de corps work rather than being locked in
a campervan alone scrubbing (emptying?) strangers shit.

Why would you want your son cleaning bogs /campervans to prove a point?
You sound as though you want to humble him.
Promulgating resentment is what you are doing.

I would also respectfully point out to anyone attempting to ‘pin the tail on
the donkey’ , that entitled is a random parameter.

I wonder why gardening (historically male dominated) and working in a restaurant (fairly evenly distributed although a female male split in job roles) are seen as a valuable use of time, whilst cleaning (female dominated) is not valuing your time well....

You only have to look at the relationships threads to see where boys who are brought up to think their time is too valuable to clean end up, or rather where their partners end up

Meanwhile cleaning teaches you punctuality, speed, attention to detail, responsibility, potentially being part of a wider team, time management and the ability to work independently (which quite frankly can be lacking in graduates)

But sure let's label men's lower paid jobs as valuable experiences and womens lower paid jobs as not valuing your time.

I really do struggle with the attitude that you have to do objectively unpleasant jobs in order to get a good career.

My ExH came from a very working class family and he was told all his life not to get notions and not to think that he was too good for menial work.

I was in despair sometimes at how hard they tried to hold him back.

Oh, you can't apply for that job, you've not got the skills, you need to start at the bottom, you can't do this, don't start thinking you're too good for that

There's a difference between valuing jobs and respecting the work that people do - and I chose to be a teacher so a fairly standard job but one where kindness goes a long way - and giving someone the message that the only jobs they are good for are the low paid unpleasant ones.

I fully agree with this.
I think it’s possible to encourage your child to develop a good work ethic without this ‘know your place’ attitude.
Fwiw, I had several jobs as a student, three different ones simultaneously at one point, but I never had to clean toilets 🤷‍♀️

Well said 😉

@dimllaishebiaith I think it’s more to do with the fact that cleaning up other people piss and shit can be quite unpleasant. Gardening and cooking tend to be a bit nicer.

My mother was a cleaner for 30 years, some people’s behaviour in toilets and how they leave them, often deliberately, is disgusting. Gardening and cooking don’t compare.

So is shoving your hand up a cows arse but I've never heard someone describe being a vet as not valuing your time better

It's not about it being a disgusting job. I totally agree it's not for everyone, and if the OHs son thinks he hasn't got the stomach for it then that's fair enough

It's the fact of someone sneering that being a cleaner is not a valuable use of time when the average salary of a cleaner in the UK is 19-20k and a garden centre worker is 18-23k and yet only one is considered valuable...

This!!

Who the hell does your son thinks cleans the toilets at home? And why has he never at the age of 17 cleaned a toilet?

There are plenty of jobs that don’t involve toilet cleaning.
My cousin worked at kids sports camps and loved it. Earned well too and spent time outside being active.
And he does now clean his own toilet. But not other peoples’.

Only snobs see any job as not valuable, but we are all allowed preferences. We would all be fucked if no one cleaned and therefore it’s valuable.

I know a lot of vets, 2 of my friends are vets, as are some of their siblings. Having their hands up a cows arse or similar isn’t their favourite part of the job, but their love of animals makes some of the less pleasant tasks worthwhile. I don’t think there are many people who can say the same about cleaning. Making an animal well and free of pain is very rewarding, making something dust free or a bin empty, not so much. Most of us can clean, not many of us have the ability to treat sick animals and that’s the difference.

I think many ‘mums’ are possibly surprised that you 17 year old son is only just being required to think about/consider the possibility that perhaps he could/should take a menial job through the summer when he will be/soon to be 18! when many of we ‘mums’ have self motivated children who want/need to earn their own money if only to buy tech, clothes, experiences their parents might/would not (have the means to) fork out for nor approve of.
Your 17yo son has pocket money? 17? and has pocket money?

It seems that suddenly your expectations of him have leapfrogged his lassitude,
with the possibility that he might dig his heels in and fight you

Why isn’t he/hasn’t he a pt job already???

Town schools 6th formers are on the tills and possibly ‘in the back’ at our local Waitrose store, pleasant, smiley, helpful, then weekend shifts,
doubt they clean the toilets, Waitrose being wealthy enough to employ cleaners

Those already at Uni work as weekend delivery drivers, at diy stores, window/car cleaning and gardening! I forgot about gardening, that is always popular with young men/women and older ladies (the usual customer) especially through the summer

As already suggested upstream, volunteering always looks good on a cv, altruistic, public spirited, willing - key word here wouldn’t you say?

I think it's more important that he does his share of cleaning bathrooms/toilets at home than that he's willing to do this in a job if there are other options available.

Many of us will never have to clean toilets for a living but if we're not prepared to do it in our own homes, then that's a bigger issue imo, and incredibly disrespectful to the people that we live with.

My OH has just reminded me of the William Rose Butchers notice in his shop window in East Dulwich, SE22, was 2016, said he was fed up with unsuitable youths being pushed into the shop by their mummies.
It was meant to be ‘tongue in cheek’ but it worked, a challenge.
This “went viral” easily found online.

I find it incredulous that the words ", toilet and cleaning" cause the vapours on here. My oldest DD was horse mad,at 13 working at stable s.....horses don't actually use toilets.after leaving school, training for BHSI, groom at top polo yard,own thoroughbred. Youngest DS thought he would like to train in butchery. I was vegetarian,he thought that was funny. Stopped eating meat,it made him feel sick. Ex H was a qualified Horologist and jeweller, family trained,he didn't want to do it, given no choice at 16. We managed a jewellery shop in north London,lived above the shop. There was a burglary, she wasn't insured, because of previous burglaries,so we're homeless (moved into a caravan) and he trained to drive the Bowsers at Gatwick and cleaned out plane toilets. Fast forward, oldest DD couldn't take the stress of management, menopause, breakdown owing to bullying, now working in a coffee shop.

I've done some shite jobs but never cleaned toilets.

I had a job in a bar when I was about 20. They kept sending me into the men’s loos to clean them. I just refused. I clean plenty of poopy toilets now thanks to my kids. I wouldn’t force my teen to do it

Some of these comments/attitudes are unbelievable, just makes me think all those threads full of admiration for their cleaners and 'oh she's an angel' and 'she's worth her weight in gold' are all bullshit and most really actually do see their cleaners as lowly cap doffers barely worthy of kissing their shoe.

"Yah, its ok for someone else to be a cleaner, but not my Tarquin or Jacinta! They are better than that"

It's quite sickening to be honest.

Sorry, @dimllaishebiaith I didn't mean to quote you.

But they can often pick and choose something which doesn’t involve doing something they really don’t want to, like cleaning toilets. Good for them.

When my son was at college, he turned down a job in a supermarket because it meant sometimes working on a fish counter. He didn’t want to and so chose to work in a call centre and do tutoring. Now he’s at uni, he still does some tutoring and also works a few hours at his uni.

There are usually a few options, even with little experience. Some people sound resentful of that, they seem to have a desire to bring their children down a peg or two. That was certainly the case with my mother.

Ita the same with carers (unsuprisingly another female dominated role)

I see it here all the time, posters berating childless/free women because they will "expect other peoples children to wipe their arses", but when pressed the average MNetter will also admit that they are fully expecting other peoples children to also wipe their arses, because their children couldn't possibly do that

Now whilst I understand wanting your children to not be a carer when the pay is generally rubbish and it tends to be on zero hours contracts etc nevertheless it's always the general tone not of "I would like them to have a more secure, better paid job" but of "Oh no we are far too good for that, that's what the plebs do"

But when I worked in financial services we often recruited carers into our admin/call centres because they were renowned for being accurate, hard workers with good attitudes. They often ended up going to specialise in higher paid roles on the company too because their work ethic was recognised. Now it's fair enough if you want your child to go to uni etc rather than enter through this route but I've never seen the same distain for plumbing, bricklaying or plastering as I have for cleaning or caring etc on here

Cleaning has a lot of advantages compared to other jobs. The hours are flexible and (at least around here) the hourly rate is higher than that for childcare workers, teaching assistants or supermarket workers. The flip side is that it is physically demanding, repetitive and sometimes a bit gross.

Personally, I'd rather clean than work in a holiday camp, as many teens do (that sounds like hell on earth to me and much more draining), but as a teenager who hadn't had years of experience changing dirty nappies, cleaning up food mess and clearing up after others, I can see how other options might seem more attractive.