How do I deal with this hurtful behaviour?

[Changeling78]

My DD15 can be so moody and spiteful, she will stomp around the house grunting. I went to give her a hug this morning, she shook me off and recoiled. Now, I know she doesn’t have to accept a hug from me but I also want her to realise that the way she speaks and acts towards people does affect them. It’s so hurtful. If she is tired or grumpy she makes our lives miserable. I’d say this is her personality 75% of the time.
I have to take her to collect her new glasses tonight and we’ll normally call in for Macdonalds…but I don’t want to. I know it’s childish but I’m hurt.

Absolutely this. I likened my once lovely little girl to being swapped overnight by some clone from another planet.
It was like she had vanished and been replaced by a replica with no empathy, feelings or care. And the entitlement was astonishing. Especially as she hadn't been raised entitled and had shown no signs of it before.

But, then one day she got switched back, and now shes absolutely lovely again. I'd say it lasted about a year. Although mine was 17 when it hit, but from speaking with friends of mine it varies greatly!

It does get better. But definitely pick your battles.

As soon as I realised she would argue about absolutely anything to disagree with me I just thought i'd wait it out. If I was pointing at something very evidently red and said 'That's red', she would reply with 'no, its yellow'. It was frustrating. EVERYTHING was contracdicted by her. It was weird actually. And she seemed to openly hate me. I was suddenly 'old' 'didn't know anything' 'had no life' 'wouldn't know what fun was'.

Pick your battles and as much as you want to kill her sometimes, just try and accept its not personal. you'll have your lovely sweet girl back again as soon as the, what I can only assume were raging out of control hormones, subside.

And buy wine.
You'll need it.

We are very lucky that our DD15 does not behave in this way at all, she is sociable, chatty and polite but she does not do hugs!

I feel your pain OP! I have DS15 too. He is nowhere near as moody as his sister was at this age though. I think girls are much worse. He's independent & always busy/got friends over etc. Doesn't want to watch films with us anymore etc etc - all perfectly normal (my DD19 still likes to hang out with us when she's home from Uni so don't give up all hope - older teenage girls can be lovely once again once the moody years have passed). I would never attempt to hug my teenagers in the morning though 🤣🤣 what were you thinking?? lol. But I agree with others - if she is rude or doesn't answer a direct question she needs bringing up on that sort of behaviour. I have lots of friends with 15 yr old DD & they are all moaning they are ust horrendous atm. Try & ignore her to some extent & concentrate more on doing things that cheer you up & make you happy x

Reading only the op it comes across like you want to buy her approval and love.

If she wants to act like a grumpy child that's up to her, but there's not a hope in hell I'd be treating her with respect if she didn't show me any and certainly no treats!

It's so normal. I think it helps to remember that. She can't regulate yet and the thing is she will spend her time at school most likely being calm and nice to her teachers and friends, which is hard to do all the time for her. So then she comes home and takes it out on you because you are her safe place and you are her unconditional love. It's very much like a toddler after nursery! Read into the neuroscience in teenager's brains, it's interesting and will help you take it less personally.

Calm conversations and apologies are great, but this behaviour IS normal and needs needs be tolerated to a certain extent. Teenagers brains are wired a certain way - read into the neuroscience. We expect them to start acting like adults because they aren't little kids anymore, but they are very much not there yet. And in fact their brains won't be matured until they are around 25 years old. Her Mum is her safe space and so her lack of patience and bad moods will be taken out on her unfortunately.

Book: get out of my life but first take me and Alex into town.
Highly recommend.

Oof. You have played a risky game there. Boundaries are one thing but your kids aren't going to come to you with their issues if your stance has purely been to stop everything you're doing for them. They aren't adults, they're still kids and their brains aren't mature yet. There maybe big issues in their lives you're not aware of causing their behaviour, or there may not be - they may just be struggling with hormonal mood swings and burying their emotions at school each day. You've then given them absolutely no outlet for their emotions, and probably just made them bury them at home too so that they can still get what they need from you 😕.

She is not responsible for how her feelings make you feel.

Going by recent experience of teenage years with my DD I think this sounds like normal behaviour at this point😒 they are trying to work out their place in the adult world and struggle with wanting to be grown up and yet still needing to be parented and safe. I quickly discovered my DD found being asked if she was ok very annoying, she said she would tell me if she wasn't and I just had to trust that she would. For the most part I allowed her to be moody and sullen, and I found texting her was easier for her than trying to speak face to face, even when she was at home in her room, it gave her the options of how she replied or not replying. That being said she was not allowed to be rude or nasty, she was reminded this was not acceptable at any time. My advice would be hold your breath and go through it, remind her often that you love her and wait until she comes back to you,because she will. My DD is now happily settled at uni and we are closer than ever

Sounds like a normal teenage girl to me. My grandaughter is exactly the same to her mum. When I discuss it with my younger friends who have teenagers they all say the same. I remember my daughter being just the same she grew out of it.............eventually. I can remember thinking my mum was the worst mum in the world and that was 55+ years ago so some things dont change.

I think a skin teens if they are ok often gets their backs up. I work in CAMHS and I often advise parents to say something like I can see you are ....not ok/ upset/angry whatever the emotion is.. I am here for you, is there anything I can do. This seems to work far better

Not wanting to hug you has nothing to do with respect. Don’t punish her because you’re trying to force physical contact on her -
you’ll be encouraging a mindset that emotional manipulation is ok and people can manipulate her in to physical contact and punish her if she doesn’t engage with it.

other forms of disrespect may need to have a consequence but the consequence should be reasonable and proportional to what actually happened.

Hate to say it but my DD was awful from around 15-18. Just grumpy, massively judgemental, picky, passive aggressive, you name it. I despaired and tried everything then finally just withdrew a bit and let her get on with it.
She had been relatively normal, happy before so I did wonder if it was just hormones but also couldn’t quite believe they could have that much of an influence. You’ve gotta believe it!
She’s now almost 19 and about 80-90% back to her old self. I can’t really adjust myself it’s so odd! She even said sorry.

I honestly don't know whether this is helpful or not, but I do know a mother in her late 80s whose daughter in her 50s is so rude to her all the time, beyond anything I could make up. She expects her mother to do things way beyond her abilities for her, give her money, and she twists everything her mother does or says to put it in a bad light. I think the daughter may have a mental problem. However, I dread to think that this could be behaviour that started in teenage years and somehow was not sorted out then.

I think it’d do you both well if you had a chat with her about general home life. Keep it about the whole family, rather than “you must…”.

Something like “We need to agree on basic manners and the way everyone in this family treat each other. So, the expectations are, at the very minimum: that we all say please when we’re asking for something, we thank each other when taking something or when someone has been kind, made effort, or been helpful. We acknowledge each other when we arrive and leave. And we assume good intentions. This goes all ways, we must all extend the same courtesies to each other, and you have my word that I will always meet these minimum standards. I expect the same from you - we are a team, you are one part of this family, and we all affect each other’s quality of life every day.”

Nothing there is a personal attack on her, all
of it is very basic, easy, standard manners and kindness, nothing too difficult.

Then, when she doesn’t manage to meet these expectations you can call it out there and then: basic manners please DD.

I sat my 15yr old down and explained to her in detail how hurtful and mean her behaviour was. I told her that I really wanted to spend time with her, and feel close to her, but also, I don't deserve to feel upset all the time with her horrible behaviour. She admitted to a few things she was struggling with. School is helping as well now with her anxiety, and things are getting better. She prefers me not to get up in the morning and see her off as we were falling out..... Every morning lol!! We are talking a lot more now and are working on things. Fingers crossed for you and your Girl 🤞. Get talking but also stand your ground on the rudeness, and ask for communication.

It’s what teenagers do: comply and defy. They need to individuate to find their way in the world and part of that involves finding you annoying.

You’re doing the right thing by hanging in there and remaining supportive. But it certainly wouldn’t hurt to tell her how you feel when she is rude. I think you should also uphold some basic expectations eg greeting you when she comes home and saying thank you when you do something for her, for example. I don’t think she should have to hug you if she doesn’t want to though.

I recently listed to an episode on a great podcast on the subject of teens: Best Friend Therapy. Have a listen :)

@Changeling78 your post resonates here too! My daughter is 14, autistic and has physical/medical disabilities but is cognitively typical and on any given day (sometimes hour!) I never know which version of her I'm going to get. It's like Jekyll and Hyde - sometimes in the same body!

She hates school and it really triggers her anxiety so I know when she gets home, to give her her own space and not ask/talk too much. I ask at other times if she is in the mood for a cuddle or wants to spend some time together watching something/baking or just general chit-chat and try not to take it personally if it's a no.

It does feel at times that her mood overshadows the entire house and we all feel like we are walking on egg shells but I keep trying to remind myself that she has so much to deal with, over and above that of her siblings (she is the youngest) and even against her contemporaries but I won't lie, it is hurtful and does get me down at times, especially as most of her vitriol seems to be directed at me. I do call her out on it when her tone is rude/disrespectful and ask her if she would speak to her teachers or friends as she does to the rest of the household. At times, she seems not to even be aware of how she is coming across which is probably a combo of her ASD and just being a hormonal, angry teen.

I also remind myself that my Mum and I hit a rocky patch at this age and now we are very close. I think I turned back into a pleasant human being again around GCSE age so here's hoping!

Does she suffer from PMT? Have anxiety? Maybe she needs a doctor?

Absolutely this.

OP what you've described sounds normal for a teenager. I was pretty much exactly like this at 14-16, never grateful for all the lifts or pocket money, completely self absorbed, didn't confide in parents, did what I wanted. Me and my mum had rows upon rows.

It's a phase. Now I'm an adult I'm nothing at all like how I was then, and my mum is my best friend.

If you want to address the things like saying thank you for making her lunch, tell her. As for the eye rolling, I think you have to let some things go and chalk it up to the teenage years.

In a few years she'll recognise and be grateful for all that you have done and continue to do, but right now she can't.

Start being tougher with her regardless of being a moody teenager she should know to respect you as her mum

Op very clearly in her post said it’s ok not to hug and it’s not about that.
And what is it with everybody suddenly using ick and icky? - has MN been taken over by 2yr olds?

When I was a teenager my mum was a single mother and I was 6ft and 15 stone, my mum 5ft and 9st. I thought I could stomp about cos I was the big man.

She put me in line quick. It took her a few months.

If I blanked her, she would blank me. If I refused to do chores she would refuse to do an equivalent amount of tasks for me. If I overstepped the line she would refuse to give me surplus money for treats or confiscate an item when I wasn't about (giving it to my military uncle who I wouldn't have dared tackle.)

The withdrawal of money made me go out and get a paper round and a Saturday job in the local bakers shop, which has given me a strong work ethic as an adult.

I really felt the money thing. Nothing hurt more than not having enough money to go to the gym, a disco or the cinema at that age with friends and most importantly girls.

Kids often don’t understand that they are giving off vibes that others perceive as hurtful. They don’t mean to do it. Just point it out without accusation. They are still learning, we are still there to guide them.