Dd 13 has shut down and won’t talk to us

Justonecat · 2023-03-14T11:23:48+00:00

Dd is so unhappy. She has no friends, she is at a school which is (mostly) demographically different from us, and she hasn’t made any real friendships. Her academic performance has really deteriorated to the point where she is below average in every single subject (used to be in top sets in primary and had CATs of 133 just as a reference). Up until recently she was involved in a sport which took up nearly all her spare time since about seven years, she was successful but we couldn’t really tell if she enjoyed it or if she resented spending so much time on it. We have had something like 12 discussions with her, trying to understand why she is having these academic/social/motivational struggles, but she can’t really explain. She doesn’t say anything. We offered her to change schools, even home school, to keep her sport, to do more of the sport, or to quit, but she did not express a preference one way or another, so we were at a loss. Something was clearly making her feel pressured and it was clear that her situation wasn’t working for her. She swears she isn’t being bullied, or harassed online or in person, or anything like that. There is some low level unfriendly behaviour towards her in school such as people not wanting to sit next to her in class and such, but nothing more than that. We recently made the difficult decision to take her out of her sport. We hope this will give her more time to catch up on her studies without the time pressure, and to hopefully connect more with people at school. We have encouraged her to join a few after school clubs so she has something to do, and we are also hoping she will make friends this way. It’s hard, as this sport was a huge part of her life for so long, but school has to come first, so we didn’t feel we had any other options. Did we make the right decision? What can we do to make her talk to us? sorry, this probably doesn’t make much sense, but it just felt good to write it all down.

NoSquirrels · 14/03/2023 11:26

No, I’m not sure you made the right decision. Why did you think the sport was the problem?

Marchforward · 14/03/2023 11:26

No, I don’t think so.

She is isolated, being bullied and doesn’t have friends at school. She must be desperately unhappy and you have taken away the thing she enjoys.

You need to speak to the school about your concerns.

midgemadgemodge · 14/03/2023 11:27

If she is having problems at school pulling her out of school activities and replacing with after school clubs sounds wrong

It also sounds like you are putting her under a lot of pressure to perform well at school

lifeturnsonadime · 14/03/2023 11:27

Unless she said she didn't want to do the sport or that sport was the problem, I don't think you should have removed it either.

Sport is great for mental health as well as other, social aspects.

WandaWonder · 14/03/2023 11:29

So sport is the one thing she likes? Why on earth did you stop it? (I know you answered that but that to me was a wrong decision)

Choconut · 14/03/2023 11:34

Why would you pull her out the sport that she's really good at and not the school that she hates??? She clearly has no idea what to do to make things better so rather than asking her what she wants I think you need to say - lets try this. If there's another school to try then I'd try it, it doesn't sound like things could be much worse if she has no friends and is this unhappy.

Breezycheesetrees · 14/03/2023 11:36

Gosh, yes, really poor decision there I think.
Also, "people not wanting to sit next to her in class" is absolutely not trivial, if this sort of thing is typical of how her peers treat her then I imagine she is feeling very very isolated, demoralised and anxious. Please don't minimise this. Your poor daughter.
I was unpopular at school - not bullied exactly, but a misfit who was not well liked - and battled with depression and anxiety for most of my adult life as a result. Her academic achievements should not be the priority right now. You need to find a way to reconnect with her, and help her find her spark again, as a matter of urgency.

Isheabastard · 14/03/2023 11:39

Can you find someone outside the family, school counsellor, private therapist, who she would open up to?

I wasn’t in the same situation as your DD, but I have always found it difficult telling my family my fears and worries, especially when I was younger.

I have no problem telling all to a therapist.

midgemadgemodge · 14/03/2023 11:43

Sit her down

Say you are sorry and made a mistake because you are worried about her

midgemadgemodge · 14/03/2023 11:55

Oh and try the side. By side communication- walking or driving where she doesn't look at you rather than face to face

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:02

midgemadgemodge · 14/03/2023 11:27

If she is having problems at school pulling her out of school activities and replacing with after school clubs sounds wrong

It also sounds like you are putting her under a lot of pressure to perform well at school

I can see how it would come across like we are pressuring her academically but I swear it’s the opposite, if at all we have probably left her too alone when it comes to school work. We viewed year 7 as a time for her to find her feet in a new school, and not focus too much on her performance. While her academics did slip a little we weren’t worried. But this latest report was on a completely different level to the previous ones.

I only mention it because it was a real wake up call to us that something is not working in the way we have organised her life, with a busy after school schedule.

OP posts:

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:03

Isheabastard · 14/03/2023 11:39

Can you find someone outside the family, school counsellor, private therapist, who she would open up to?

I wasn’t in the same situation as your DD, but I have always found it difficult telling my family my fears and worries, especially when I was younger.

I have no problem telling all to a therapist.

Definitely looking into this! It’s hard as mental health services are under a lot of pressure now and wait lists are long

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atthebottomofthehill · 14/03/2023 12:06

Have you considered neurodiversity, specifically autism? It often shows up at her age for girls in exactly the way you say.

I would investigate this with some urgency, privately if you can.

I would urgently get the school to address bullying. And work with school to consider other ways to make attending school more bearable for her, which may involve reducing the time she is there to start with.

I would reinstate the sport immediately. Anything that boosts her self esteem and mood and creates routine in a good way is essential.

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:06

Breezycheesetrees · 14/03/2023 11:36

Gosh, yes, really poor decision there I think.
Also, "people not wanting to sit next to her in class" is absolutely not trivial, if this sort of thing is typical of how her peers treat her then I imagine she is feeling very very isolated, demoralised and anxious. Please don't minimise this. Your poor daughter.
I was unpopular at school - not bullied exactly, but a misfit who was not well liked - and battled with depression and anxiety for most of my adult life as a result. Her academic achievements should not be the priority right now. You need to find a way to reconnect with her, and help her find her spark again, as a matter of urgency.

I agree with you but my husband is of the view that she basically needs to toughen up and make more of an effort to make friends in school. We definitely disagree on this point.

OP posts:

Passerillage · 14/03/2023 12:08

Breezycheesetrees · 14/03/2023 11:36

Gosh, yes, really poor decision there I think.
Also, "people not wanting to sit next to her in class" is absolutely not trivial, if this sort of thing is typical of how her peers treat her then I imagine she is feeling very very isolated, demoralised and anxious. Please don't minimise this. Your poor daughter.
I was unpopular at school - not bullied exactly, but a misfit who was not well liked - and battled with depression and anxiety for most of my adult life as a result. Her academic achievements should not be the priority right now. You need to find a way to reconnect with her, and help her find her spark again, as a matter of urgency.

I really second all this. This might seem low level, but this treatment in school is insidious, and will hurt for years to come. I'm in my 40's and it still affects how I assume people think of me.

Honest question - if you'd been working for 18 months in a big, fairly anonymous organisation, doing a job that you could do at any one of several similar organisations in your city, and you were being treated like this by your colleagues - excluded from after work drinks, people noticeably refusing to sit with you, no friends at work, to the extent that your work was visibly deteriorating and you were unhappy, would you stay with that employer for another six years?

Take her out of school. Start over. She's going into year 9 in September, right? Lots of schools have a year 9 entry point - it's quite a common "break point" at secondary. Keep her home for the summer term if she wants - it doesn't really make the slightest difference to her future.

Do you work/work from home? She can do a couple of hours of maths and languages every day with Oak National Academy and a couple of online private tutors and she'll be grand.

Show her that you have her back.

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:09

Husband thinks that we have made a mistake on focusing so much on her sport, as her busy afternoons have meant that she is whisked off straight after school and has missed out on the social side of school
life. That’s the root cause of her unhappiness, as far as he is concerned. Too much pressure from the sport, and too high of a price to pay for it socially.

I don’t think he is entirely wrong

OP posts:

Passerillage · 14/03/2023 12:09

@Justonecat Noooo - she's only 13! She doesn't need to toughen up - she's not a character in Oliver Twist. She needs to be supported and protected.

gettingolderbutcooler · 14/03/2023 12:12

Oh no- you took her away from the sport she liked??? My heart bleeds for her. You're effectively punishing her for the misery and subsequent poorer marks she is having at school.
Pleeeease rethink this from her point of view.
😥

DarkChocHolic · 14/03/2023 12:13

Sorry your DD is unhappy OP.
Naturally you are very worried.
It is not uncommon for teenage girls to shut down when they are overwhelmed.
Many cannot articulate what is exactly bothering them.
My teenage DD has low mood and often says "I don't know" to anything I ask when trying to probe why she is unhappy.
I then don't know how to help if I don't know what the issue is.
I think counselling will help if she will engage with it.
Are there any counsellors at her school and would she be happy to see them?
Alternately, ask if the GP can recommend.
For something in the early stages GPs do have access to other forms of youth help services provided by councils and schools.
These do not tend to have a big waiting list like CAMHS.
Alternately if your family have private health insurance, some do cover basic counselling services and its worth checking.
In the meantime, spend 121 time with her without discussing anything.
Movies, shopping, cake and hot chocolate etc.
Show her she has you no matter what.

shmiz · 14/03/2023 12:16

it sounds like she needs that sports in her life
sports protect against depression
if she’s unhappy at school and not involved in anything out of school that doesn’t sound good to me -
waiting lists for mental health support are long,
way too long,
if there is anyway you can pay for some sessions -
go for it - it can make such a difference

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:17

Passerillage · 14/03/2023 12:08

I really second all this. This might seem low level, but this treatment in school is insidious, and will hurt for years to come. I'm in my 40's and it still affects how I assume people think of me.

Honest question - if you'd been working for 18 months in a big, fairly anonymous organisation, doing a job that you could do at any one of several similar organisations in your city, and you were being treated like this by your colleagues - excluded from after work drinks, people noticeably refusing to sit with you, no friends at work, to the extent that your work was visibly deteriorating and you were unhappy, would you stay with that employer for another six years?

Take her out of school. Start over. She's going into year 9 in September, right? Lots of schools have a year 9 entry point - it's quite a common "break point" at secondary. Keep her home for the summer term if she wants - it doesn't really make the slightest difference to her future.

Do you work/work from home? She can do a couple of hours of maths and languages every day with Oak National Academy and a couple of online private tutors and she'll be grand.

Show her that you have her back.

Show quote history

I do work from home and this is more or less exactly what I proposed! But dd has been very reluctant to venture down that path. This surprised me initially but I do believe she actually does like her school. She can tell us about people not wanting to sit with her one day, and next day it will be a completely different situation, with some fun moments and so on. So on balance she did not seem ready to leave.

That left us in a difficult situation: clearly something is not working with her current set up, so which variables can we change? We ended up realising that the sport was the one thing we had to take out of the equation. It’s the kind of thing which requires re a intense and frequent training and there was no feasible way to cut down on her hours, so we made a clean break for now. She can always go back to it at a recreational level should she want to.

I’m just so unsure. This sport is a big part of her identity and she will have to reinvent herself now. It’s not easy, I went through something similar myself but I was 18 when I walked away from my sport - it was very hard initially to not have it in my life anymore

OP posts:

Passerillage · 14/03/2023 12:21

@Justonecat "That left us in a difficult situation: clearly something is not working with her current set up, so which variables can we change?"

I do understand. It resonates because we're in a sliiiiightly similar situation with our teen dd who is fine with school one day and in the depths of despair and loneliness the next, and now we have a brilliant opportunity to move her somewhere better, but she is hesitating because of the unknown. It's tough!

waterrat · 14/03/2023 12:23

I have to say I am shocked reading this OP _ that you have taken away from her the physical and mental outlet she had in her sport - the life after school.

A child already struggling with bullyiing - and you ask her to 'reinvent' her life outside school???
Why?

Schools is far less important than mental wellbeing - you can study all your life if school doesn't work out - but she needs her outlet right now out of school

Please let her go back to her sport - and consider changing schools

Your husband sounds like he is really not thinking of her welfare by the way - 'toughen up??? do you mean put up with being miserable and unhappy while kids pick on her all day?

AS a parent of an autistic girl btw i would also have a look at signs of ASD in girls

Original poster

Justonecat · 14/03/2023 12:24

DarkChocHolic · 14/03/2023 12:13

Sorry your DD is unhappy OP.
Naturally you are very worried.
It is not uncommon for teenage girls to shut down when they are overwhelmed.
Many cannot articulate what is exactly bothering them.
My teenage DD has low mood and often says "I don't know" to anything I ask when trying to probe why she is unhappy.
I then don't know how to help if I don't know what the issue is.
I think counselling will help if she will engage with it.
Are there any counsellors at her school and would she be happy to see them?
Alternately, ask if the GP can recommend.
For something in the early stages GPs do have access to other forms of youth help services provided by councils and schools.
These do not tend to have a big waiting list like CAMHS.
Alternately if your family have private health insurance, some do cover basic counselling services and its worth checking.
In the meantime, spend 121 time with her without discussing anything.
Movies, shopping, cake and hot chocolate etc.
Show her she has you no matter what.

I have to say I am happy to hear we are not the only ones with an uncommunicative teen… Good idea re health insurance - we do have coverage through husbands work so I will check our policy. Thanks!

Quality time with her would be lovely but we are a big family and it’s hard to fit in 1-2-1. She has had almost daily alone time with me in the car going to and from her sport, if that counts… and she could have had all the time in the world with me had she opted for home schooling or a break this next term, I only work part time so would have had lots of opportunities to do things together, but she did not seem very keen on this model.

OP posts:

Eyesopenwideawake · 14/03/2023 12:25

Have a (free) chat with Therese Langford of www.facebook.com/calmmindhypnotherapy - she works almost exclusively with children.