Dd 13 has shut down and won’t talk to us

[Justonecat]

Dd is so unhappy. She has no friends, she is at a school which is (mostly) demographically different from us, and she hasn’t made any real friendships.

Her academic performance has really deteriorated to the point where she is below average in every single subject (used to be in top sets in primary and had CATs of 133 just as a reference).

Up until recently she was involved in a sport which took up nearly all her spare time since about seven years, she was successful but we couldn’t really tell if she enjoyed it or if she resented spending so much time on it.

We have had something like 12 discussions with her, trying to understand why she is having these academic/social/motivational struggles, but she can’t really explain. She doesn’t say anything. We offered her to change schools, even home school, to keep her sport, to do more of the sport, or to quit, but she did not express a preference one way or another, so we were at a loss.

Something was clearly making her feel pressured and it was clear that her situation wasn’t working for her. She swears she isn’t being bullied, or harassed online or in person, or anything like that. There is some low level unfriendly behaviour towards her in school such as people not wanting to sit next to her in class and such, but nothing more than that.

We recently made the difficult decision to take her out of her sport. We hope this will give her more time to catch up on her studies without the time pressure, and to hopefully connect more with people at school. We have encouraged her to join a few after school clubs so she has something to do, and we are also hoping she will make friends this way. It’s hard, as this sport was a huge part of her life for so long, but school has to come first, so we didn’t feel we had any other options.

Did we make the right decision? What can we do to make her talk to us?

sorry, this probably doesn’t make much sense, but it just felt good to write it all down.

My DD was like that at 13, now she's housebound at age 19 and so mentally ill as to be considered disabled and under a psychiatric hospital. Consider yourself lucky that you have the chance to change the outcome for your DD. Don't let your husband bully her, and forget any worries about her grades etc., just concentrate on making sure that when she's 19 she can walk outside her own front door and have some semblance of a normal life. I feel quite sick reading what you've done.

But I imagine my opinion won't be popular, so you can ring the parents helpline at Young Minds to get impartial advice:

www.youngminds.org.uk/parent/find-help/

It's not necessarily the best comprehensive

It's gets good ratings in a limited assessment

But a "poor " school can have better pastoral care

Children may well achieve their best as a school that doesn't seem to perform as well

It's worth thinking about changing school

But it's quite tricky at this age - sometimes it takes time for them to find their feet

@HangerLaneGyratorySystem I think OP is trying her best and is up against a teen with no opinion and a DH who thinks she should pull her socks up.
Taking a sport away from a child like this though, the thought of what you're going to be dealing with in a couple of months does make me feel a bit sick. I really hope you can put something in place asap.

The other schools in our area make national headlines for all the wrong reasons… I wish it were ‘just’ dodgy ofsted reports

I just can't get my head around this:

She hasn't asked to move schools so I haven't moved her.

compared with

She hasn't asked to give up sport so I've made a unilateral decision to stop it anyway.

I asked upthread how is that decision, ever, going to help her in school?

As a PP stated for children with ADHD or other SEN the 'best' comprehensive often isn't the best for children with additional needs.

I would be phoning other schools to ask specifically to speak to SENCOs to see what support she can have in their school and act accordingly.

I would also put her back in her sport so she has something that consistent and is positive for her mental health.

An unhappy child won't be well educated.

I tend to agree with @HangerLaneGyratorySystem

And she won’t give her approval because if things go wrong then it will all come tumbling down.

I speak from experience of being that child and having 2 children with ADHD.

If you look at adhd in girls I think at some point the wheels do come off

I know I was your dds age when everything fell apart with school. i can honestly say I never learned a single thing from the middle of year 8. I think leaving school then would have saved so much wasted time.

Telling her to study harder isn’t going to get the results you want.
I think if you have pulled her out of her routine, a sport where she won’t be able to return to. I think has added to her distress and you have to admit you have permanently changed her life.
Forget the academics and get her to work through what she wants to do. I think she does need to speak to someone outside of you and your husband.

FWIW at some point the wheels do come off for women who have adhd.
Uni, the menopause and things like lockdown, taking away all the routines and expecting to WFH brings adhd to the forefront

@Dodgeitornot I know, I was being a bit confrontational but I read stuff on here about how parents think it'll all be ok if they just "fix" their DCs I want to get them by the shoulders and say "DO YOU REALISE WHAT COULD HAPPEN?!" - bit of a visceral reaction. I have to say my H was like that and I told him to fuck off to the far side of fuck but too late, the damage was already done.

I understand the issue with not being able to afford private - but is relocation an option? Kids with ADHD, and I speak as one, very often do better in smaller schools. They can just get overwhelmed in large institutions.

Has she got an EHCP?

Have you spoken to the SENCO in the school she's in?

You need to focus on the issue with the school rather than removing the sport.

WTF? This is a massive drip feed OP. You never told us she had ADHD until way into the thread.

@Oblomov23 Doesn't really matter, sometimes it's good to get an opinion that's not influenced by other factors. Even kids without a diagnosis go through this sort of thing and it's useful to know what people have done. Also psychiatric diagnoses are very subjective, plenty of parents second guess them and just because a child has a diagnosis doesn't mean you shouldn't receive impartial advice. I'm sure if the OP mentioned it from the outset the thread, as it has now, would've been overtaken by ADHD advice.
FWIW the OP has had a pretty united response in terms of what she should do, and all the responses are what you'd do to kids with or without ADHD.

With my young teenage daughter one thing that really helped was we both sat and regularly did scrapbook journalling together. I got two big hardback art books and lots of really pretty stickers some funny, some cute and cool metallic markers and we both did pages on areas of our life. Because it was practical not verbal we did pages on ‘things that made us happy’ ‘things that made us sad’ ‘favourite things to do etc. Best memories, who I am, feelings/ favourite clothes/ Activities I love.
I also bought her a instant mini Polaroid camera to take photos of things she liked/ enjoyed etc.
It told me so much more about her that she had never told me verbally. I could see much clearly the specifics/ nuances of what she might be struggling with.
It sounds abit naff but it really helped identify areas where it was possible to help her and also things that she cared about alot more/ or bothered her a lot more than I had ever realised. Also we had real fun and I did pages about my life that fascinated her.

@Justonecat , I echo what others have said - the possibility of ASC/ASD is well worth investigating (although there is a lot of overlap and it could 'just' be her ADHD. Which, as PP pointed out, is never 'mild')

• She is 13 (prime age for things to come to a head)
• She has lost interest in what she enjoyed
• She cannot bring herself to make a decision by herself
• She is isolated in school and peers avoid her
• Hear academic achievement has gone down from being top sets in primary

All this could point to autistic burnout. Look into it.

And FWIW, I would call the avoidance by peers bullying. Not such thing as low-level bullying.

We are just coming through this. It’s very worrying

honestly - can you change schools? Don’t take away the extra curricular.

Yes, SENCO are involved since the beginning of year 7

I’m not saying there isn’t autism by the way, but I’m not sure why severe anxiety in itself isn’t “enough” of an explanation

People not wanting to sit next to her is a big red flag, not just some low level kids being mean. She may not understand it as 'bullying' but being made to feel like an outcast has similar effects on a child's mental health. She must be so sad and genuinely depressed. Agree with some previous commenters that focussing on her mental health right now is more important than school performance. Well done for reaching out on here to hear some other opinions, sounds like you are doing your best, but there may be more avenues to explore if you accept she has a legitimate mental health problem - I sure wish my parents hadn't put my withdrawn behaviour down to just being a moody teenager.

Perhaps going to back to her sport would do her good, especially as I assume there may be some sense of community or 'belonging' associated with it.

Good luck, I hope she feels better soon.

Nothing you've said points me to autism OP, not sure where people are getting that from but I do think your child sounds very depressed and needs something in their life that brings stability and routine. The easiest for now it seems would be the sport. I'd carry that on until you find meds that work or an alternative solution.

I’ll listen to every piece of advice I get both here and in real life as I am desperate to help dd. Someone I know just had a child attempt suicide so I realise how high the stakes can be sometimes

The only other thing I'd add is to keep an eye out on her social media. DD wasn't allowed any social media aside from Pinterest and I didn't even think to check that. When I took her phone off her one day there were thousands and thousands of depressing pins idealising suicide etc. It shook me to my core. Please don't give up hope, it'll get better, you sound like an incredible mum and she needs you now more than ever.
Try and get her back into sport and a trial of Elvanse. My DD also goes to CBT which is probably a waste of money but who knows, I was desperate and she seems to have turned a corner after a very worrying 6 months.

I think you’ve made a mistake and withdrawn your dd from the wrong thing. It sounds as if school is really the issue and alternatives would be better. Your dd is bound to be tired and sad if she’s struggling at school. My dd is 14 btw and I would not have made that choice for her at 13. She does a lot of out of school activities and is only free 1 school evening a week. She has never had issues with other kids sidelining her because she’s not free.

As for your dd wanting to hang after school, my dd didn’t have to go off to her activities straight after school every day in year 7 or year 8 so she could go to the park etc for a short period once or twice a week. It was a novelty for a while but it started to reduce in year 8 and peters out as they get older. I fear you’ve potentially taken a decision on your dd’s long term future when her peers won’t be doing this regularly soon.

A lot of people on this board are saying school is the issue, which I agree with. My dd wasn’t happy at her large comprehensive, wasn’t getting on. Felt stuck in lessons and was not learning much. I think her grades would have suffered a lot more but she was in lockdown in yrs 7&8 and worked very hard at home. She got to the stage, where she wouldn’t participate in lessons, ie not ask or answer questions. Wouldn’t make any effort in PE despite being very sporty. She was overwhelmed I think and wanting to fit in with her peers. By the start of year 9, she really didn’t want to go back and was really pushing against going in. Tbh it sounds as if this perhaps is what is happening with your dd. Like you, I approached the school and spoke to the HOY and they really couldn’t see it at all. As you say, more pressing things. The HOY spoke to dd and dd also wouldn’t open up at all.

Parents evening yr8 was when I realised there was a big issue at school (no parents evening yr7 - covid). The teachers described a child, who wasn’t like my dd at all. I spoke to dd about it as I could see something was wrong and that I didn’t recognise the person the teachers were talking about. I told her the offer to go to another school (if I could get her in) or privately was there. It took her about 3 months to suddenly ask to change schools just before the start of year 9. She had to go back and that’s when she started getting close to refusing to go. Luckily I swiftly managed to get her into a private school. It’s not very big, around 40ish students in the year. She loves it. Hasn’t looked back.

My dd did have a group of friends, which is different from your dd. But if my dd couldn’t cope at the school even having established friends, I totally understand why your dd has completely shut down. She is probably exhausted by school and her self esteem through the floor. If she’s not happy at school, it’s understandable her lust for her sport has suffered.

As for freeing your dd up in the evenings, I really don’t see how if your dd was free she’d suddenly get to hang out after school. Was she invited out in the past? This seems to perhaps be your dd having made assumptions and connections based on her limited understanding of how life at school operates in the groups. The meet ups in my experience take a lot of manoeuvring because at this age, they’re still honing the skills to organise things and often only established friends will invite one another. I don’t understand how you expect this to happen when your dd doesn’t have a fixed friendship group. As for your dd not having many friends, I don’t think it’s because she isn’t free. I remember having friends from strict background and they were never allowed out after school. Lots of children get the bus to school and so have to leave immediately. Neither precludes friendships forming.

With regard to the demographics of the students, this is pretty normal unless the school is in a particularly affluent village or market town. I would start looking for another school for your dd. Probably better in a MC rural location if there’s one around she can get to.

Above all, I would send her back to her sport. This is part of your dd’s identity. And I would have thought she must have friends there?

There is some low level unfriendly behaviour towards her in school such as people not wanting to sit next to her in class and such, but nothing more than that.

@Justonecat this is bullying!

So many replies here laying blame on the OP for stopping the DDs sport. Maybe I'm reading it differently, but for all the upsides, elite sport is also hugely problematic (unforgiving, competitive, demanding, pressured, lots of emphasis on body/weight) and if the DD isn't really enjoying it any more then I think taking a step back sounds sensible. I can see its a hard choice but given her own indifference, I don't think it is unlikely that she may actually welcome an adult stepping in and giving her permission to call it a day. PPs are talking about building an identity around sport as if that is a good thing - I'm not sure I agree with this.

If it is gymnastics, could she look at parkour?

It does sound like she is struggling, poor girl. I hope taking some of the pressure off her will give you and her room to explore some of the wider issues she's dealing with.

@dontknowwhatisbest I think the general consensus is the withdrawal was the parents decision and it's gone from 100-0 with the hope she would take part in after school life if she's not at the sport. If kids don't want to sit with her at school, not sure who she'll be meeting up with after school though or where she will find something she feels she's good at.
It would be different if it was the child that wanted to quit or go to a recreational level.

Take all academic pressure off her, in fact any pressure to give her a breather.

Tell her that she's not failing, she's not getting things wrong, you're trying to find the right way to support her as your main focus is that she's happy.

Meds are great, I absolutely love mine, but they don't undo the self esteem issues. As your dh has private health insurance, use it to get her into specialised therapy. She needs a safe outlet with someone who understands how her brain works.

Tell your dh to back the fuck off her before he completely damages their relationship. He's already made her think that her difficulties are her fault.

Right now, she needs peace, calm and understanding. Give it to her.