Dd 13 has shut down and won’t talk to us

[Justonecat]

Dd is so unhappy. She has no friends, she is at a school which is (mostly) demographically different from us, and she hasn’t made any real friendships.

Her academic performance has really deteriorated to the point where she is below average in every single subject (used to be in top sets in primary and had CATs of 133 just as a reference).

Up until recently she was involved in a sport which took up nearly all her spare time since about seven years, she was successful but we couldn’t really tell if she enjoyed it or if she resented spending so much time on it.

We have had something like 12 discussions with her, trying to understand why she is having these academic/social/motivational struggles, but she can’t really explain. She doesn’t say anything. We offered her to change schools, even home school, to keep her sport, to do more of the sport, or to quit, but she did not express a preference one way or another, so we were at a loss.

Something was clearly making her feel pressured and it was clear that her situation wasn’t working for her. She swears she isn’t being bullied, or harassed online or in person, or anything like that. There is some low level unfriendly behaviour towards her in school such as people not wanting to sit next to her in class and such, but nothing more than that.

We recently made the difficult decision to take her out of her sport. We hope this will give her more time to catch up on her studies without the time pressure, and to hopefully connect more with people at school. We have encouraged her to join a few after school clubs so she has something to do, and we are also hoping she will make friends this way. It’s hard, as this sport was a huge part of her life for so long, but school has to come first, so we didn’t feel we had any other options.

Did we make the right decision? What can we do to make her talk to us?

sorry, this probably doesn’t make much sense, but it just felt good to write it all down.

I worry about all of the above! It’s not ideal. Her Ed psych report states that she needs a minimum of 30 min aerobic exercise per day, but I can’t force her… I can only hope that she decides to join some after school clubs which will help with this.

If we had felt that her sport was very important to her, and something she really wanted to do, I don’t think we would have made this decision. It started to feel like she wasn’t enjoying it anymore. She did show a lack of enthusiasm this last year or so. Sport can be so hard. You have to be able to handle your friends and peers developing faster than you, and I don’t think she was able to. It seemed to be getting her down a lot towards the end

That's interesting she was diagnosed with adhd. Just be aware that it's very hard to diagnose autism in preteen girls if they're not intellectually impaired. It's often misdiagnosed as adhd, and anyway there's a huge overlap in adhd and ASD. But the symptoms you describe now are more ASD. Might be worth keeping an eye on it.

I would 'put her back in the sport', also I would get a dog if you don't already have one. Teenagers need to withdraw from their parents as part of adolescence - and a dog is a good emotional support that never asks you anything.

Sofabed summed it up perfect the need for time with her where you can just stumble into chitchat rather than having big ‘talks’ with you and/ or your husband. Most of the most important info I have got from my DD has been mentioned so casually in a really low key chat.

Something was clearly making her feel pressured

Sounds like it is you and your DH to be honest!

She enjoyed doing her sport, 'her thing' and you've now taken that away and are trying to force her to join clubs that she doesn't want to join... WTF?

Poor kid.

It's also not unusual for 13-years to 'not want to talk'.

And I also think she just wants to fit in with her chosen peer group, which seems to be school, and not the people from her sport. She just wants to go to McDonald’s and Starbucks after school with everybody else, she has glamourised this in her mind and seems to crave that level of normalcy. Sleepovers, social media, fashion, all of that… she felt like an outsider as no one else in her year shared her lifestyle of training and early bedtimes etc. I was adamant that our choices for her were the correct ones but we’ve watched her grow more and more unhappy, and something needed to change.

That is interesting. Will have a think about this

And you cannot 'make her' talk to you.

What do you mean demographically different? Ethnicity or income etc? Personally I would pay private for a therapist or look at charity youth groups for her to have a fresh start at socialising in.. I would be rowing with husband's tough it up attitude. If people aren't sittong next to her she is definitely being ostracised ...bullied essentially. Have you spoken to school about it?

It might have been the right decision. Serious competitive sport can be brutal for children - having to accept that hard work isn’t enough for them to keep up. Can you ask her former coaches for ideas about other sports she might be suited to?

Yes she could definitely go back to her sport on a recreational level. I hope she will, or that she finds a new hobby.

How long ago did you remove her from the sport. If very recently then surely she could still be at the level she was at before.

I've had 2 children who have been talented at sport.

One regional national level/ the other county.

Neither of them would have dropped to recreational after a short break.

I'm not saying that she has to compete at high level to enjoy it, especially if it is putting her under pressure to do so. But to drop a level so quickly seems very odd.

She just wants to go to McDonald’s and Starbucks after school with everybody else

Of course she does. She's 13! Why are you trying to control every aspect of her life then wonder why she is unhappy and doesn't want to talk to you?

I think she was at sports practice so she couldn’t go out straight after school.

Just telling her to make friends and get on with it (your DH) is beyond insensitive.
She obviously doesn't know how or she would be doing it already.
The social rules around high school are difficult to navigate for many. Not fitting in becomes a cycle.
In my experience (3 teens) they have all found significant improvements in their school experience from year 9 onwards. Does your school change it's forms around in yr 9/after GCSE options? That's a really good time to find a new group.
Otherwise I would ease off from pressure around school achievement as there's still time to pull that back. Maybe concentrate on finding some activities with her that she's interested in - doing something alongside other people is aan easier way to build rapport and then friendship. Non competitive sports maybe? Guides or Scouts?

Demographically different = all of the above. Majority are a different ethnicity and also from a different socioeconomic background, although I don’t think any of these differences mean much at this age. The main difference for dd would probably be her lifestyle of constantly being busy, vs pretty much everyone else who has more spare time to hang out after school, browse nearby shops and grab a Starbucks or McDonald’s etc. Dd has also missed a few school events due to other commitments.
This made her stand out as different.

What has she said about you stopping her sporting activities? If she's unhappy about it I'd get her back in to it ASAP.

Another thing that struck me was the slightly dismissive way you said she's not being bullied. Some children don't want to sit next to her but there "nothing more than that" - as if that's a really minor problem.

Well I can tell you from my own experience at secondary school that being treated like that by other pupils is absolutely NOT a minor issue to her. I was treated the same way. I didn't see it as bullying at the time because I thought bullying was being beaten up. No one ever layed a finger on me. However, sometimes people didn't want to sit next to me, sometimes they sniggered as I walked it to a room as if my mere existence was amusing, sometimes they'd all start whispering about me as I walked past them in the corridor. To you, this might sound like "nothing much" but it all had a devastating effect on me. At that age you only want to conform and be accepted by your peers. The fact that I was singled out by them as being different and weird had a huge impact on my self esteem. I felt like a freak or like there was something deeply wrong with me that everyone could see. I used to dread going to school, I'd have panic attacks, I'd skip lessons, I became mute in class because people would laugh at me when I spoke, my marks plummeted. There was absolutely no way I could tell my parents about it. I felt so humiliated. I couldn't bear for them to know how disliked I was. I'm not saying all this is happening to your daughter. I hope not!! I'm just saying that even seemingly low key behaviour from other kids (like refusing to sit near her) could be absolutely devastating for her. It's also entirely possible that she's not telling you the full story due to feelings of humiliation and shame.

Maybe it's not that at all but don't rule it out.

Tricky. Clearly there are problems here. I don't know how to unearth what it is though.

But having no friends is not nice. Plus, people refusing to sit next to her in class is nasty - that needs to be addressed. Is there any teacher that she likes, who she could talk to? If not go straight to HoY. Explain everything as you have done in this thread and ask for him specifically to deal with the nastiness that the other children are showing her.

Sorry - I missed this post. It sounds like actually your DD has told you exactly what she wants to do but you have struggled to hear it for a while.
Not listening does lead to not talking.
Put in some more sensible boundaries around her after school activities and let her be the teen she wants to be.

I haven’t been controlling for the sake of it? It’s because she used to have practise after school every day. She didn’t have time to socialise

From what you’ve said it sounds like she wanted a break from that level of commitment to sport. There are plenty of mothers on here who have gone through the serious sport thing and they’ll have the best advice on how to handle that aspect.

That’s exactly what I’m aiming to do now. Fingers crossed it works out well for her.

I’m having to let go of a lot of control as girls from her school have been caught shoplifting after school on three separate occasions, there’s lots of vaping going on, and so forth. We are having to trust dd to make the right choices

Poor child!
I think I get it OP as DD was similar and wanted to be with a particular group who weren't accepting her in y7 or y8
She was all over the floor.
Same group accepted her in y9 and she is still with them.
They do seem like a good bunch so not sure what happened in Y7 or Y8.
Your DD probably derives a lot of her self esteem from sport.
She was also conflicted between time spent in sport versus socialising.
Now her self esteem is low as she isn't doing sport.
It's tricky! Yes school can make sure no one refuses to sit next to her. However no one can enforce that your DD gets invited to Starbucks.
It's an awful time in a teenagers life when they go through this.
I would recommend other activities that are less time consuming so she feels she has a socialising window also.

Well I think ethnicity can have an impact of course. I am mixed race and went to a majority white secondary which was really difficult for me! I see what you mean about her lifestyle being different. Dont usually at those clubs you socialise with the team, team meets etc? So she has some solidarity and Starbucks dates lol there? Sounds so hard for you and her both 💛 Maybe her apathy is depression ? Definitely try some youth groups, brownies etc something. Perhaps you could "pick up a new hobby" and ferry her along with you.

Perhaps you could take her to the local Mcds straight after school and hang back, allowing her to say hi to her peers she likes and signify she is free after school now?

Thats an interesting update. It sounds like the decision to move her out of the sport was the right one.

Stopping the exercise will have a huge impact on her mental well being. It sounds like it was the right decision, but it will take her a while to readjust to the lack of regular highs that exercise brings. Bear in mind that she will also present differently to you, she may seem sullen, or moody. It’s quite normal anyway in teens, but will look like quite an extreme change to you.

She has lost a very busy structured life, and that is so hard for someone with ADHD. Just because it’s the right decision, doesn’t mean it will be easy.

There will also be hormones at play, too. And the social stuff is so tough, she processing a lot.

Could reframe this? Instead of ‘Something is wrong that needs to be fixed’ could you maybe see this as a tough period that you can explore ways to support her through?

Also, "people not wanting to sit next to her in class" is absolutely not trivial, if this sort of thing is typical of how her peers treat her then I imagine she is feeling very very isolated, demoralised and anxious. Please don't minimise this.

This happened to my daughter. We have quite an ordinary background and she ended up at a girls grammar. She was excluded through severe isolation and felt suicidal and developed anorexia. I wish we had moved her from that awful school and dreadful girls ( I bet their parents had no idea how those girls behaved and school was unsympathetic).

what I will say was an activity and volunteer work outside her school environment probably saved her life. So maybe not give up the sport.