Dd 13 has shut down and won’t talk to us

[Justonecat]

Dd is so unhappy. She has no friends, she is at a school which is (mostly) demographically different from us, and she hasn’t made any real friendships.

Her academic performance has really deteriorated to the point where she is below average in every single subject (used to be in top sets in primary and had CATs of 133 just as a reference).

Up until recently she was involved in a sport which took up nearly all her spare time since about seven years, she was successful but we couldn’t really tell if she enjoyed it or if she resented spending so much time on it.

We have had something like 12 discussions with her, trying to understand why she is having these academic/social/motivational struggles, but she can’t really explain. She doesn’t say anything. We offered her to change schools, even home school, to keep her sport, to do more of the sport, or to quit, but she did not express a preference one way or another, so we were at a loss.

Something was clearly making her feel pressured and it was clear that her situation wasn’t working for her. She swears she isn’t being bullied, or harassed online or in person, or anything like that. There is some low level unfriendly behaviour towards her in school such as people not wanting to sit next to her in class and such, but nothing more than that.

We recently made the difficult decision to take her out of her sport. We hope this will give her more time to catch up on her studies without the time pressure, and to hopefully connect more with people at school. We have encouraged her to join a few after school clubs so she has something to do, and we are also hoping she will make friends this way. It’s hard, as this sport was a huge part of her life for so long, but school has to come first, so we didn’t feel we had any other options.

Did we make the right decision? What can we do to make her talk to us?

sorry, this probably doesn’t make much sense, but it just felt good to write it all down.

The school needs to be doing more. She needs to find her tribe. After school clubs are a great idea. I’m guessing she has been doing gymnastics (I don’t know why you just don’t tell us) and the atmosphere can be very harsh at the top levels. Even without the full on abusive coaches who thankfully are rare. If she didn’t protest and stopping I think you made the right call.
I know this is drastic but if it was me I would move. Go somewhere with a democratic more suited to your DD.
Difficulties in processing how you feel about things, especially when they are multifaceted, is a common issue with girls with ASD. As is difficulties with making decisions.

She may be an ethnic minority at this school, but not by much I don’t think. I don’t believe race has anything to do with it in her case. All ethnic groups have apparently had comments made about them, which isn’t nice, but no one group seems to be targeted more than the other

But you say she sometimes has a nice time with her friends?

her old friends have created a really tricky group at their new school and there is non stop drama going on, I know dd would not be equipped to deal with it. We asked her if she wanted to look at possibly going to one of these schools and that was the only clear ‘no’ we have had in any of these discussions.

I think she’d do better with a fresh start somewhere.

Yes, there are a couple of girls she can spend break times with. It’s a relatively new acquaintance. They are all very religious (different religion to us) and are not allowed to do any of the clubs or hang out after school so it’s not something she could turn into a friendship outside of school but it’s nice to have someone during school hours.

Tae Kwon Do is a really social or sport with a real emphasis on community.

do you have a local youth club?

could she benefit from peer mentoring- does the school
do this?

@Justonecat

She is likely to be beyond making decisions. You need to make the decision for her. She is still a child. I always say to my children that I will listen to their opinion but the ultimate decision is mine and DH's. We are the adults who have the pre-frontal cortex development to make the long-term decisions. Our DC do not yet have that ability.

Dd did open up with me and said she doesn’t want to leave her sport. She told me about what life is like at her school, how some of the other children don’t want to sit with her, they pretend not to hear when she is talking, and how she feels like a fish out of water. I’m so sorry for her. She wants to leave the school and I support this 100% but dh just won’t see it from her perspective. He insists that she can turn things around if she just tries harder. In his opinion there must be some nice children in her year, and if she hasn’t connected with them yet then she hasn’t made enough of an effort. He thinks she is lazy and disorganised and he believes that she will feel better about herself once she has turned things around and starts working harder in school.

It doesn’t make sense to me to keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results. Clearly things are not working at the moment and unless we change something, how can we expect a different outcome? How is this child supposed to ‘pull herself together and try harder’ when she is this unhappy? Or am I too soft on her like dh suggests. He doesn’t want to absolve her from responsibility and give her an easy way out. I am beginning to think I am insane for being the only one who doesn’t think we can keep her in this school

I think with respect you are both a bit wrong. Dh sounds as though he's blaming her totally and you are blaming the school totally.

AREN'T there any nice girls she could be friends with? Even one? Or has she set her heart on being friends with a particular group?

I guess it’s hard for dh to see dd’s viewpoint as she hasn’t opened up to him the way she has with me, and on top of this he is not particularly tuned into (teenage) girls and their lives.

So is she restarting the sport. Or is your husband still refusing to allow that even now she has said she doesn't want to leave it?

You are both on a pathway of losing your relationship with your daughter if you don't listen to what she wants.

Regarding the school I would suggest you look at alternatives and present them to him. Lots of children change schools and/ or are home educated with very successful outcomes.

I will say that my dh would have been similar, and tbh when I look back at some of the stuff dds tied themselves in knots over I can see his point.

There is a chance that she ISN'T making an effort to find the nicer kids. Surely there MUST be some? My worry would be you'd move her and it would be the same.

When my dd struggled at her school in year 10 we decided that she'd tough it out, with a view to moving in the 6th form. She also had a sport to concentrate on out of school. I made a fuss of her, helped her through gcses then she moved for 6th form and did really well and became quite popular!

Sorry, I thought she was in year 10! If she's not then you could possibly move her before gcses kick in

It might be the best comprehensive for others but it clearly isn’t for your Dd

What has private school got to do with anything?
When I said we binned off the academic side of school I was meaning that Dd was in the lowest class and was quite happy to not have to put in much effort with homework. She wasn’t planning on getting 8 A* GCSEs then going into A levels and then get a degree. Her career path was already set in motion outside of school. I was amazed that she got the GCSEs she did.
By the time she left school (she was supposed to stay in education or training until she was 18 but I rang the local education authority and they said that she couldn’t claim any benefits but apart from that there was nothing they could do to stop someone leaving school at 16)
Dd was already a qualified teacher in 2 activities and she set up her own business.

I would be looking around for other alternative schools or even revisit the home schooling idea where she could hyper focus on what ever she wants.

If she isn’t able to return to the sport can I ask why it was stopped with no alternative or plan put in place.
For a child with adhd, activities are something that they need. Physical exercise does help with the adhd
If she can’t return is there any other activities where she can rise quickly through the grades and she could try out for a while to see if she enjoys them.

It seems like the school environment is
the problem but you took away her sport to spend more time in the problem area

She told me about what life is like at her school, how some of the other children don’t want to sit with her, they pretend not to hear when she is talking, and how she feels like a fish out of water.

It’s definitely worth exploring autism because, my god, any autistic woman alive would tell you that this kind of social isolation is a universal experience.

I know you said she’s been assessed by a psychologist and a psychiatrist and you assume it would have come up, but were they specifically assessing for autism, or just seeing her for her ADHD? Because I wouldn’t be so sure that they’d pick it up unless they were specifically looking for it.

Having said all that, autism or not she is still neurodivergent and I think you’re downplaying its role in all this. Especially your husband ⬇️

dh just won’t see it from her perspective. He insists that she can turn things around if she just tries harder

Blaming her for not trying hard enough to be likeable and put herself out there just isn’t fair. Don’t you think she already beats herself up about not being cool or funny enough, or for being too anxious and quiet? Of course she is. Does he think she could overcome her ADHD if she tried harder too?

Were your children diagnosed with ADHD

If not then it is irrelevant saying the Dd isn’t making the effort.

The effort this girl is making is more than anyone could imagine and because she isn’t behaving as expected she gets punished by removing her only outlet.

Your daughter obviously was good at sport.
Can she choose another, not so pressured form of sport?
A team sport that utilises her skills, keeps her active and involves a different social set from school might make her happy.

Having mild Adhd does not mean you cannot make friends!

Loads of previous posts have already said your DH is punishing her for something she can't help. So why are you still questioning yourself? Are there consequences for you if you don't follow his (inflexible) will?
She should be allowed to go back to sports asap (ignoring for a minute that that should always have been her decision).

What exactly is mild ADHD though?

Whenever I hear a parent describe their child’s neurodivergence as “mild” it smacks of a parent being embarrassed that their child isn’t neurotypical. Or that their child isn’t disruptive/hyperactive so it must be “mild”.

I guarantee that this girl’s inner experience of her ND doesn’t feel mild to her.

You can't guarantee anything of the sort as you don't know her at all!

PO, it's a very good thing that DD has opened up.

Now you need to follow through: let her go back to her sport & change schools (or deregister until July maybe?)

For that your DH needs to stop being an ass - how dare he call your DD 'lazy' and 'disorganised'? Does he even know what ADHD is? Seriously - has he read any books, attended any courses, paid any attention even to what the practioner told you all? If not, he should do it, sharphish. And again 'mild' ADHD is not a thing.

You are not insane. You are spot on here - How is this child supposed to ‘pull herself together and try harder’ when she is this unhappy?

You need to have DD's back because DH certainly does not.

(And FWIW I agree with PP that unless she has been specifically assessed for autism, it does sound like a possibility).

I know what it’s like to be a neurodivergent teen though, so I can offer more insight than most. Even if her ADHD is considered “mild”, her inner experience will be anything but.

I really hope you will now send your dd back to her sport. As for schooling, perhaps other schools aren’t the best on paper. But the current school isn’t getting the best out of your dd despite the ofsted report. Her grades are tanking.

On one of the current Ofsted threads a poster with dcs with SN said in her experience, schools with lower ofsted were better for her kids and the higher up grade the schools attained and the closer to outstanding, the worse outcome for students with SN. This was just an opinion or an observation. I don’t have the experience to comment upon this. I just thought this comment may be of use to you. It’s on this thread and the comment is from HairyMcLair. See pic below. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4767324-first-headteacher-refuses-to-be-ofsteded-in-boycott?reply=124783498

I can also anecdotally say that my dd didn’t get on at an outstanding school. We decided to dip into savings to send her to a smallish private school and she started in year 9. She chose the school and didn’t want to entertain either of the much larger private schools with better facilities in the vicinity.

I know you cannot afford this. But it is more important to find a school, which fits for your dd rather than just going off a report. If we had gone off attainment at GCSE grades, we probably would have insisted on sending dd to a larger school rather than the one she chose. This one otoh will get the best out of her as she is very single minded and knows what she wants. Sending dd to another state school wouldn’t have worked btw as she was choosing to hang about with children, who weren’t interested in getting good grades - the wrong crowd so to speak. Due to their influence, she was afraid of making the wrong move, of asking or answering questions in class and so forth. So there are lots of reasons for looking at different schools.

There is no such thing as mild ADHD and making friends doesn’t come easy especially if there are strings attached like only making friends with the right sort of people