18 yr old son made supid comment in group caht with serious consequences

[helgarr]

My son has got involved in a group chat where he went to defend his friend but said something stupid to the girl involved related to a footballer which had horrible misogynistic connotations. Understandably his school have taken it seriously and he now likely to have serious sanctions at school and possible police action if the girl's parents take it further. He seriously regerets what he said and is really worried about his future. He does have aspergers tendencies and finds relectinig on his actions difficult. Does anyone have any advice on what may happen if the police are involved or he gets expelled from school.

I couldn't agree more on all counts. There is no excuse. I'm not trying to excuse it. I'm just making the point that there needs to be a recognition that many boys do really struggle to understand what is/isn't acceptable due to how ridiculously patriarchal and misogynistic our society is.

A lot of parents don't feel equipped to have these conversations at home.

And schools are shit at this. I'm sorry but doing a few PSHE lessons does nothing to tackle misogyny. The whole academic curriculum needs to be overhauled. All academic subjects are built on misogyny - just look at the books kids read in English, for example - Of Mice and Men is all about a woman being murdered for being too flirty and the disabled male perpetrator is the one the reader is encouraged to feel sympathy for as the woman deserved it. In History they learn about how men have done all the important stuff throughout history while women are on the margins doing the washing up. In Art and Music they barely learn about women who have created amazing works. Women are on the margins in every subject. Having a few lectures every year about how it's bad to disrespect women isn't going to have any effect until there is a wider recognition of how everything else we teach them reinforces patriarchal, misogynistic views.

So it's complex. Parents need to be more aware of what's going on at school, more aware of the social media their kids are accessing, and more willing to talk to their sons about this.

However, at the moment, not much of this is happening and so there are many boys growing up genuinely believing that women are beneath them and they can treat them as they like, with very little input from anywhere telling them otherwise.

100% this!! I haven't read the posts since but I am disgusted with the other posts prior to this one!

Why are you disgusted @letthemalldoone?

You aren't disgusted by a man threatening a child in a group chat though.

I wonder how serious it was really. People get upset over the most ridiculous things these days.

Did he say there are only two sexes ?

Was he being too masculine?

OP, I think you need to be really careful here.

If he has made a threat, and the girl is underage, or worse under 16, then a letter of apology won't make any difference to the school's actions. First and foremost, they need to safeguard their other students, and if they believe the threat was credible, then they would exclude him and likely not allow him back on site for exams either. Because if something did happen, and there was already evidence of a threat, that would be disastrous for the school as a whole.

If he writes a letter of apology, and the girl does go to the police, it could be used against him- i.e. an admission of guilt.

I think you need to ask for a meeting with the school on Monday ideally, and ask what sort of action they are planning to take, and try to persuade them the threat was not credible, and that your son is not a risk to female students. You should try your best to find out what the girl's parents are planning to do, although, of course, the school may not tell you.

That said, if the school don't take action, that's often when parents will involve the police, so it is a tricky line to walk.

My experience as a teacher of the police in these situations is that they often will not act without clear evidence, otherwise they just speak to the people involved and say there isn't enough evidence to proceed. If there's a letter of apology/statement that could be read as an admission of guilt, or intent, then that could actually encourage the police to take action.

If the parents do go to the police, and there is an ongoing investigation, it's very unlikely he would be allowed back on the school site until it was resolved.

It is not simple to find an exam centre to take a private candidate at short notice, so I would start looking at local alternative places where he could sit his A-levels. It is likely to be costly.

Where have you seen that?

It's a good thing his abusive comments have been exposed, and dealt with. Sounds like you wouldn't have dealt with it yourself.

BTW, whether he has ASC or not, if he has made a serious, credible threat of rape or harm towards a girl, the school has a duty to safeguard her. Legally, if he is an adult, and she is a child (even if their ages are only a few months different) then it is very likely that the school would go down the route of exclusion.

As he doesn't have a diagnosis, and therefore, I assume, doesn't have an ECHP, then having ASC traits, or even being on the waiting list for diagnosis will be limited protection.

It may be a mitigating factor which would mean the police would be less likely to go down the route of prosecution.

In terms of exclusion, your biggest defence may be that the school will make a mistake with their process in some way- at which point you may be able to get an exclusion overturned.

But I think you really need to meet with the school ASAP, to get an understanding of how seriously they are taking this.

This is what I thought.

I do think it depends exactly what he said, though.

If he said something like "I hope [footballer] gets his hands on you" rather than "I'm going to hurt you like [X] did to [Y]" , that is very different to an explicit threat, and the former would probably be dealt with less seriously.

Is there any prior history with this girl? Could it be seen as a part of wider (sexual) harassment towards her?

‘As the mother of two boys all I can say I I wish you the best OP.’

As the mother of a son and a daughter OP, stop making excuses and minimising what has happened.

Having the opinion that X footballer is innocent or that the woman in question is lying is not a police matter or even a matter for school. Threatening another student with sexual assault is though.

We know he's an adult. We know she is a child because the OP says that the parents may take it further. Unless I suppose she is an adult who lacks capacity.

We don't know what he said but it's serious enough for the OP to worry about the police and he's going to be thrown out of college.

If it's not a threat then what else could it be? What could he have said in a group chat that would warrant the police and expulsion from sixth form?

This.

So my take is that ot must have involved "rape chat/apology".? Did he immediately realise it was a mistake when he was immediately called out for it on the WhatsApp group.

Don't minimise what he said. If he has asergers get an actual diagnosis but don't use it as an excuse whether diagnosed or not.

@helgarr If you truly think your son is on the spectrum and that is a contributing factor on how he dealt with this situation, you should look into getting him assessed. Until then, you absolutely cannot use it as some kind of defence for whatever he’s said or done, it’s actually quite offensive and insulting.

The NHS should be employing you if you can make a diagnosis so easily with so little information. Backlogs would clear in no time.

I don't think we can necessarily infer she is a child. OP's son is an adult, but she is getting involved.

Most parents of 18yo girls who are still in school would get involved if they felt their daughter was being threatened or harassed.

If it's not a threat, but part of a pattern of repeated harassment of the girl, then that could also be a reason for exclusion and police involvement, for example.

I'm not suggesting (sexual) harassment of a peer is justifiable, btw, but the if the school excludes, in this sort of circumstance they might allow him back on site to sit his exams, for example.

I'm not trying to justify or defend it, but there are variables that could make the school take a really hardline response, or show more flexibility.

Just as an example, but if he had threatened to rape a 15yo, and the school/parents/police felt it was credible, it is very, very unlikely he'd be allowed back on the school site for any reason...

We don't know what he said, we don't know it was threatening, we don't know she is a child.

He needs to write a letter of apology asap and pass it on to senior management at school - there shouldn't be any reasons or excuses in it, purely an apology and a recognition of wrongdoing. As he's in Y13, I assume he'll be on study leave fairly soon after Easter anyway so I doubt if they'll permanently exclude him. He'll already be entered for the exams so I don't think the school will stop him from doing them.

Nonsense. We don't know anything about the girl or how old she is.

If the OP's son is in Y13 and 18 there's no reason to suspect she isn't the same age.

And of course the parents are involved - she's still living at home and at school. What parent wouldn't be?

There are a lot of people on this thread making up stuff and stating it as fact without seeming to have actually read any of what the OP has said. Nowhere has the OP said most of the stuff that's being claimed on here.

Interesting how the parents of an 18 year old are NOW thinking he may have autism traits.
What made you not think that for the preceding 17+ years I wonder.
What a disservice to genuine people.

Tbf, I teach students up to the age of 18, and I do know some sixth formers waiting for a diagnosis. It's very common to get fobbed off, and then things become worse in the teenage years, and then if you start seeking diagnosis at, say, age 15, you may still be waiting at 18, and then you go to the back of the list.

I mean, I do think OP is using it as an excuse. But waiting lists are also very long in a lot of areas of the country.

So do I tbh.
In fact, interestingly in one class we started to talk about toxic masculinity and excuses just this week so I've got some more nice real life examples for the next lesson.
Sadly...

Nobody in the whole world thinks it’s up to the parents of an adult woman to decide if they want police involvement in a case of online sexual threats. Maybe not the whole world - but outside of a few extremist regimes, it’s not thought to be ok to threaten adult women online so long as their mum and dad don’t mind.

Sensible explanation.

The whole point of autism is that it is a spectrum of difficulties and at the mildest end it blends into 'normal' functioning.

While many Mumsnetters might put a lot of faith in diagnosis - mainly because in educational settings it is necessary before extra resources are funded - there are thousands of people out there who experience those difficulties without an official label.

I have taught a lot of children with autism and have a great deal of respect for the different perspectives they show, but at the same time I've seen how the condition can make social interactions difficult, leading to frustration and anxiety or rarely, anger.

People with autism CAN use inappropriate words and threats. They CAN be agressors. They CAN be violent. Autism doesn't make anyone disproportionately predisposed to any of these, but neither does it make them a saintly, gentle, misunderstood martyr.