Anyone else with a teen girl who dresses badly? (Frumpy)

[PatsArrow]

I hope this post doesn't make me sound like a complete cow. I will caveat this by saying I love my daughter a huge amount. I think she's funny, clever, kind and a loyal friend.

She's 17. She's never been into 'girl' clothes. She always wore Spider-Man fancy dress rather than Disney Princess when she was little. She always preferred wolves and dragons to fairies etc. She's only ever worn a dress or skirt a few times in her life. She doesn't own a skirt atm.

Now, I don't care about what she wears - if it's 'feminine' or not. However, recently she been upset.
For sixth form she wears such dowdy and frumpy clothes. Badly fitting joggers with 80's style jumpers mainly. She hardly ever wears make-up. She has fairly large boobs and she tries to squash them down in a sports bra but this just makes them looks like they're in a flat bag. She's started to get upset and complaining to me about how ugly and fat she looks when someone has caught her on camera (she hates her photo taken).

I find this incredibly upsetting. She has a very womanly figure, small waist, big boobs and big hips - a much more different shape to her friends. If she's going out to a party, she can make herself look amazing - she puts on more fitted clothes and a small amount of make-up.
I've always told her she's beautiful. I've always tried to champion her in whatever she feels like wearing. I just feel like she's a bit lost. It's like she wants to exude confidence but thinks hiding away in an over-sized hoodie will do it.

In that past I've taken her shopping (she hates shopping) and have spent lots of money on nicer clothes that at the time she's enthused about. However they're never worn and end up at the back of the wardrobe.

At 17, she wants to feel attractive and confident although I know not many are truely confident at 17.

How do I help her without ruining her confidence? Last week she started saying she wanted a breast reduction. I objected but she said I can't object because I had one (I did, aged 45). I said she's too young and she said I'd told her I wished I'd had it done when I was younger (I did). She says she's saving for one to have when she's over 18.

This is all normal right? It's really upsetting to see the confident, wear-anything little girl she once was really unhappy in her appearance and hiding away in frumpy, badly fitted retro knitwear and joggers.

If anyone has been through this, where do I start? It's really heartbreaking to see her hating on herself.
I said I'd take her shopping on Sat for new bras and a pair of jeans.......

Sounds like me when I was younger. I was a bit of a tomboy and the son my father never had. I used to wear baggy clothes and walk around hunched over with my arms folded to minimise my boobs. In my early 20s something changed. I since overheard my mother describe me as “the glamorous one”.

[quote ZealAndArdour]@BalladOfBarryAndFreda I need full reconstruction (possibly with implant) now after so much weight loss and sagging. It’s possibly a two part surgery.[/quote]
That’s a lot of work. Good luck with it

"its a shame that many people aren't reading your posts properly. We just want our daughters to feel good about themselves and hold their heads up."

Oh we are reading it. It's just the op may not be communicating to her daughter DGAF she thinks she is, or intends to

Watch Gok Wan on YouTube styling ordinary women who have lots of unsuitable clothes and keep wearing the same old t-shirt jeans boots etc. There's one episode where the person is a biker, always in biker gear and never dresses or skirts. The transformation was astounding.
Do watch it together. There are lots of tips too.

Weird autocorrect

Communicating what she thinks she is

I also had (and still have) a mum who tells me constantly how much better I look in make up and blah blah blah. I went through a stage in my 20’s of keeping make up wipes in my car so I could take it off before I went in her house and go in with a bare face just to piss her off.

I wear make up entirely at my own leisure and convenience. She still doesn’t get the damage that she does and has done, and she doesn’t even wear it herself. The hypocrisy and disapproval of my bare face is damaging to our relationship. I’ve grown to accept and love my bare face in spite of her.

In the nicest way possible I think you need to back off and let her sort this out herself.

She is nearly an adult.

When she complains maybe just say "yeah body issues are tough. Can you think of anything that would help?" Then listen.

She will feel more herself in a few years. Being 17 is hard!

My dd has just turned 18 and dresses in baggy hoodies, loose fitting jeans and DM type boots, she wears T-shirt’s with funny memes on them, has shortish hair which she rarely washes. I often worry because she looks so scruffy but then I see other teens her age and a lot of them dress the same 🤣, seems there are the girls who spend hours doing their hair and make up, who wear cropped tops, skirts or skinny jeans and then theres the ones who wear oversized baggy clothing, no make up and can’t be bothered to do there hair. TBH I am quite pleased that dd is in the later group, all her friends dress the same and they don’t seem to care what others think.

It's on YouTube. Gok's fashion fix. Several episodes.

look at www.urbanoutfitters.com/en-gb/ - seems like she would fit the fashion they sell. Might make her feel better if you have a look together and chose a new pair of jeans or something (although the fashion at that age is for fairly shapeless jeans).

Dungarees maybe less baggy in style and can be very flattering.

something a little brighter but still in keeping with her style

I think you should start with the underwear, but also consider taking her for a breast reduction consultation.

As you rightly pointed out, big breasts can have a negative impact on lots of aspects of life (trying to exercise/unwanted attention from men/badly fitting clothes etc) but the thing that (I would hope) a consultant would say first off is that she's still likely to be growing and that you can change breast size with diet and exercise and that should be her first port of call prior to an operation.

This fact may be better coming from a HCP rather than her mum, but as bad diet can also lead to low mood/depression and exercise increases mood, then by getting your daughter to eat healthily and exercise more I imagine she will see many benefits, both in terms of how she feels about herself and how she feels about her body and appearance.

@LoisLane66

Watch Gok Wan on YouTube styling ordinary women who have lots of unsuitable clothes and keep wearing the same old t-shirt jeans boots etc. There's one episode where the person is a biker, always in biker gear and never dresses or skirts. The transformation was astounding. Do watch it together. There are lots of tips too.

So he removed her personality and made her look like everyone else 🤔, how is this a good thing? I hate these programmes, especially the ones where a family member has put them forward for a make over, I would be pissed off if my DH or DM thought i needed a make over due to my different dress sense.

If she likes joggers and baggy clothing get her to look at Urban Outfitters and Asos.
Particularly UO have lots of high waist joggers that look great on the small waisted, big hipped among us.
I did (and still do) dress like a boy from the 90s, but the difference is I loved it. If she's not found her groove yet, maybe get her on Pinterest to try and find things she likes.

I wouldn't rule out a breast reduction for her. I always had big boobs and I hated it from age 16. I couldn't exercise, I had zero body confident, it ruled my life and I spent my life hiding them.

I have just had a reduction at 31 and it's genuinely changed my life and my outlook on my body. Im back in the gym, I'm wearing nice clothes - it's brilliant. My mum said she wishes she'd have sorted for me at 18. It really effects your mental health and it's far better to make it happen earlier rather than later. As you've said yourself, you still don't feel great but maybe if you'd had the reduction younger that confidence would have grown.

It’s about that age that I found trousers and jumpers just didn’t work very well for my shape. I wasn’t particularly girly and definitely wasn’t into make up or nails. I did find dresses that had a defined waist made me feel a lot better about my body, less frumpy! I only wear dresses now in my late 20s and find they flatter my shape (with 30JJ boobs) a lot better. Big boobs can make you look a lot bigger than you are I think, I feel like maybe that might be part of the problem here!

I cannot believe this thread. Hundreds of comments and recommendations to 'improve' the style and physical appearance of a young woman who is months away from adulthood, and who hasn't actually asked anyone for suggestions or feedback on their clothing choices.

[quote ArseInTheCoOpWindow]**@ChickenStripper - I have large breasts that got even larger after pregnancy and now droop. and I don't give a shit about them, other than to make sure I wear a supportive bra when exercising. I wouldn't dream of going for surgery unless I had chronic back pain that couldn't be fixed by posture and exercise

Wait until your in your 50’s. I had crippling backache and neck ache from my 34K boobs.

I had a boob reduction 6 years ago. I’m pain free now. Not everything can be fixed by posture or exercise.[/quote]
There really is a lot a person can do without surgery. I've had large breasts from my mid-teens onwards. I was a 32G at 19 and for added context I'm 155cm tall, meaning that proportionally they were massive. I was never physically comfortable for long without a bra, even wearing a supportive top to sleep in. Even just watching tv, I could always feel a 'drag' on my skin from the weight of them.

In my 40s I became athletically fit and strong. I do regular upper body resistance training and as a result I have big strong pectorals, lats and lower traps. I rarely have to wear a bra anymore. Obviously I do for high intensity cardio, especially anything involving jumping. But for sleeping, around the house, going for a brisk walk or to the shops, etc, I have no physical need for a bra. I often wear one for aesthetics, especially as I get out of winter clothes. But other than for sports, I'd easily go for days without a bra through the winter. My back doesn't hurt because carrying a kg+ of breasts around is nothing to me. My breast skin doesn't drag as my pectoral muscles have lifted the area. I don't bounce around so much as the foundation on big pecs adds a layer of stability I never had before.

Granted, I have obviously muscular shoulders and arms now too as you need to use your whole upper body when building your chest and upper back. And that's an aesthetic women have been socialised for centuries to avoid. So not everyone is going to necessarily want to look like I do and there will always be exceptions where building proper physical strength won't be enough to off-set very unusually large breasts. But realistically, the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of very large breasted women have the ability to increase their strength, far, far, far beyond what it takes to carry their own breasts around, even without the aid of well fitted bras.

It sounds like she's upset about her boobs and trying to hide them. She's probably conflicted because she wants to 'look good'/be attractive, but women's appearance is so relentlessly sexualised in a really sleazy way (especially if she's naturally a Kim Kardashian sort of shape). She wants to look nice, but she doesn't want to be objectified and treated like a sex object, and she's struggling to find a 'look' that feels authentic and empowering but safe for her.

I agree with what others are saying - after a decade or so of young girls trying desperately to look like 25 year old porn stars when I was in my late twenties/early thirties, there seems to be a quiet rebellion going on - the girls I see at the uni i work in and the college nearby are going for a much more comfort-first, generally low-colour, pretty gender neutral look.

On the one hand I like to see it, because it was painful to see the youth primping and pouting and contorting themselves to look 'sexy' when they were barely done with childhood.

On the other hand, I do think it is representative of a sort of flight from an adult womanhood which is still so narrow and restricted in terms of what popular culture allows for which is in itself saddening.

I know it will never be the case that young women can dress how they choose entirely free from cultural influence though so I suppose at least it represents an improvement.

What are her interests and passions? Is she into sport, or art? Could she be encouraged to follow larger breasted sportswomen/PTs/something like that so she can see her breasts don't have to be a hindrance but part of a glamour and good look that isn't purely sexual? Or could you take her to galleries to see art from eras where larger female bodies are presented in a positive, beautiful way? Fundamentally all teens are looking for an identity that's comfortable, a tribe to belong to (even if in many cases that tribe marches under a banner of "we don't belong!"), or something to define themselves against in many cases. She is feeling between worlds I'd guess and while in a way that's normal for teens in a way she should be starting to carve out her niche by now so may need help.

It sounds like fashion is a bit of a foreign language to her so maybe the thing to do is to stop trying to fix her clothes to help her body image (beyond getting her a really supportive, really well-fitting bra that lifts and separates - Bravissimo all the way IMO), and start trying to fix her body image as this will help her choose clothes that tell the story she is wanting to tell about herself. She needs to decide what she is trying to express by how she dresses - at the moment she is saying 'don't look at me', but unfortunately the world keeps looking (those unwanted photos) and she isn't happy with what it's seeing. She needs to make her peace with her body and find a presentation she is happy with making. The good thing is at the moment fashion is remarkably unprohibitive so any look SHE is happy with is likely to go entirely unremarked on by her friends. Used to be bloody hard work being a hippy or a punk or a goth when youth fashion was more of a monoculture, now it's just a huge melange and it looks very liberating!

I would also reassure her that she doesn't have to love her breasts or accentuate them if she doesn't want to. That you understand (I can totally get her annoyance at your attitude, as she will perceive it as hypocrisy that you had a reduction but say she can't).

I would get her the Breast Book by Emma Pickett so she can understand them and their function better, and I'd focus on that when you explain why she is too young for a reduction just yet, but say that you will absolutely support her in that when she's an adult and they've finished developing and she's done whatever she wants to do with them. I never had any time for my boobs, I found them too big and floppy and i got no sexual stimulation from them (still don't) so found it a nuisance when men wanted to fiddle around with them during sex. But then I had my baby and breastfed her and that completely changed my relationship with them, I love them now and identify them as 'me' (whereas before they were just annoying alien burdens!).

@LoisLane66

Watch Gok Wan on YouTube styling ordinary women who have lots of unsuitable clothes and keep wearing the same old t-shirt jeans boots etc. There's one episode where the person is a biker, always in biker gear and never dresses or skirts. The transformation was astounding. Do watch it together. There are lots of tips too.

I can't envisage this being anything but damaging in this situation

Can you speak to her gp about a reduction? I would love to have a reduction I hate my massive boobs everything I wear has to be around the boobs.

What about a session with a stylist? someone who can show her how to distract from the boobs the right bras to wear etc.

It's hard when your not happy with how you look and bloody infuriating when people shame you for caring how you look. It's actually ok for her to care about her appearance.

I would try teaching her how to work around the boobs would be great for her. Looking at models with big boobs can help normalise it for her. I grew up with a similar figure it took a long time for me to realise that some clothes just won't look good on me and that is true for everyone.

@Snowisfallinghere

I cannot believe this thread. Hundreds of comments and recommendations to 'improve' the style and physical appearance of a young woman who is months away from adulthood, and who hasn't actually asked anyone for suggestions or feedback on their clothing choices.

Isn't it depressing

Is there any way she would go swimming with you?

2-3 months of swimming twice a week has reduced my bra size by a cup size.

That as well as a good fitting bra might make her hate her boobs less.

A good fitting bra has the effect of minimising the appearance of the size and would be far far preferable to an actual minimiser bra.

Apologies if someone has already suggested it but take a look on Instagram for body positive stylists.
If your daughter isn't interested then it might give you some ideas on what you can buy her.

@Snowisfallinghere

I cannot believe this thread. Hundreds of comments and recommendations to 'improve' the style and physical appearance of a young woman who is months away from adulthood, and who hasn't actually asked anyone for suggestions or feedback on their clothing choices.

But she actually HAS She has asked her Mum for help as she hates her appearance Nobody is saying this girl should change anything unless SHE wants to

I find it a bit sad that so many people are suggesting ways to change the appearance of someone who is - from the sound of it - anxious.

Confidence is something found within, and no amount of new clothing - or surgery - is going to sort that.

The things that are likely to help may be a mixture of approaches. I would start with health - daylight, exercise, vitamins, diet, training, sport, etc. It may be worth checking bloods.

I'd also consider a job, volunteering, taking up new activities that show there are other rewarding things in life and shift focus away from appearances.

Mindfulness may be useful; find a reputable teacher offering an 8week course. Headspace and Insight Timer are free apps.

Creativity might be a good outlet - does your DD enjoy drawing, writing, singing, sculpting, cooking, gardening?