Anyone else with a teen girl who dresses badly? (Frumpy)

[PatsArrow]

I hope this post doesn't make me sound like a complete cow. I will caveat this by saying I love my daughter a huge amount. I think she's funny, clever, kind and a loyal friend.

She's 17. She's never been into 'girl' clothes. She always wore Spider-Man fancy dress rather than Disney Princess when she was little. She always preferred wolves and dragons to fairies etc. She's only ever worn a dress or skirt a few times in her life. She doesn't own a skirt atm.

Now, I don't care about what she wears - if it's 'feminine' or not. However, recently she been upset.
For sixth form she wears such dowdy and frumpy clothes. Badly fitting joggers with 80's style jumpers mainly. She hardly ever wears make-up. She has fairly large boobs and she tries to squash them down in a sports bra but this just makes them looks like they're in a flat bag. She's started to get upset and complaining to me about how ugly and fat she looks when someone has caught her on camera (she hates her photo taken).

I find this incredibly upsetting. She has a very womanly figure, small waist, big boobs and big hips - a much more different shape to her friends. If she's going out to a party, she can make herself look amazing - she puts on more fitted clothes and a small amount of make-up.
I've always told her she's beautiful. I've always tried to champion her in whatever she feels like wearing. I just feel like she's a bit lost. It's like she wants to exude confidence but thinks hiding away in an over-sized hoodie will do it.

In that past I've taken her shopping (she hates shopping) and have spent lots of money on nicer clothes that at the time she's enthused about. However they're never worn and end up at the back of the wardrobe.

At 17, she wants to feel attractive and confident although I know not many are truely confident at 17.

How do I help her without ruining her confidence? Last week she started saying she wanted a breast reduction. I objected but she said I can't object because I had one (I did, aged 45). I said she's too young and she said I'd told her I wished I'd had it done when I was younger (I did). She says she's saving for one to have when she's over 18.

This is all normal right? It's really upsetting to see the confident, wear-anything little girl she once was really unhappy in her appearance and hiding away in frumpy, badly fitted retro knitwear and joggers.

If anyone has been through this, where do I start? It's really heartbreaking to see her hating on herself.
I said I'd take her shopping on Sat for new bras and a pair of jeans.......

@PatsArrow

She's a F-cup bra size. Do they make minimiser bras in that size?

Bravissimo resolutely don’t seem minimiser bras

The posts suggesting you teach her appearance doesn't matter and raise her conlfidence in other ways as a solution are a bit naive. You can tell her all day long looks don't matter, but in her world (and most people's) they do. You can help her gain confidence through hobbies, but this won't stop her lacking confidence in her appearance. Many women with great jobs, families and lives, who are full of confidence in other areas are unhappy with their appearance. We can work on it, but if thats not the message shes hearing from her peers, you're not going to effect much change. Your DD is wearing the sort of clothes her age group wear. Unfortunately it seems they don't suit her. So the choice for her is to either step away from the uniform teen look, or accept she isn't going to feel her best in this particular style but can look great when she chooses.

It's good that she's able to be open with you and talk about this. Can you discuss with her whether there is someone famous with a style she particularly likes, and you could maybe work out how to emulate some of those looks? I'm not at all up on the current trends but it might help her work out whether her personal style is more Debbie Harry, Annie Lennox or something else entirely.

Then you could spend minimal time shopping and work out a few key outfits that better reflect her sense of self while not drawing unwanted attention.

Even good joggers that don't bag at the knees will make her feel better about herself than anything that looks clumsy or ill fitting.

At 17 some girls have this totally sorted and others haven't really thought about it so she's nothing unusual and might just be a bit overwhelmed about what to choose.

@PatsArrow

She used to play netball and go running but she's slowly stopped that as she s self-conscious about the large boobs. Even with a hood sports bra.

I do know how she feels. I had a breast reduction myself and spent most of my life crippled by them (physically and emotionally). I'm just upset that she feels the same way I guess :(

I have huge boobs too and to go running they have to be strapped down or I wear two bras, a small strong one on top, so I sympathise. Getting her to go running again is a really good idea though - go with her maybe - because running sends lots of happy hormones around the body and has so many positive effects.

Swimming training is another idea, so not just swimming but swimming lengths with pressure to keep up so that your heart rate increases

And check out the old Cindy Crawford exercise tapes "Shape Your Body" because they add confidence and feel good too. There is a lot of swinging the legs which feels great and adds shape without too much bulk, etc, it somehow also releases good hormones and so you feel great afterwards.

Ask her what it is about her appearance she wants to change, so:

• For hair you could get a new style done by toni and guy or somewhere like that - maybe new colour or highlights
• For make up a makeover at a counter like in Harrods is really brilliant
• For clothes some sort of make over advice would be a nice gift. Someone who is good with clothes and shapes etc taking her out. Abercrombie is great, so is Ted Baker for her age.

Doing something she loves. Taking more personal responsiblity helps with confidence, like getting her to do all the meal plans and shopping for a bit (I did that at that age and it was good!)

Lots of things you can do! When I was 17 one of my older brothers got me running and eating and sleeping well and I am so grateful, it helped with A levels as i was clearer headed and my memory improved, I looked better, it set everything off in the right direction for me.

@aintnosupermum
@user1471548941

I certainly think that it takes many women into their 20s to sort out their style, what styles and cuts suit their body shape, what they’re comfortable wearing. A stylist could be helpful, however potentially overwhelming to a self-conscious teen.

As a teen I just followed fashion and I could get away with most things - without really considering whether it was me or not. In my 20s I stopped going with fashion so much and decided on classic shapes that I would stick to. I decided I really don’t like jeans as I don’t find them very comfortable. I wear them to go out in now but that’s it.

Learning to dress a curvy body and having the confidence to wear clothes that celebrate it rather than covering it will take some time.

@5128gap

The posts suggesting you teach her appearance doesn't matter and raise her conlfidence in other ways as a solution are a bit naive. You can tell her all day long looks don't matter, but in her world (and most people's) they do. You can help her gain confidence through hobbies, but this won't stop her lacking confidence in her appearance. Many women with great jobs, families and lives, who are full of confidence in other areas are unhappy with their appearance. We can work on it, but if thats not the message shes hearing from her peers, you're not going to effect much change. Your DD is wearing the sort of clothes her age group wear. Unfortunately it seems they don't suit her. So the choice for her is to either step away from the uniform teen look, or accept she isn't going to feel her best in this particular style but can look great when she chooses.

Hmmm. Sounds like maybe a big dollop of feminist 'fuckit' might be helpful.

And I don't just mean for the OP's daughter, I mean for society in general.

It is perfectly possible to live a fulfilling, happy life while dressing badly, frumpily and not really giving it too much attention. Living proof.

@DomesticatedZombie I don't think anyone is saying otherwise but OP points out in her first post that her daughter isn't happy, hence the whole thread.

@DomesticatedZombie

It is perfectly possible to live a fulfilling, happy life while dressing badly, frumpily and not really giving it too much attention. Living proof.

Absolutely.

But some people are happy with that and some aren’t.

Instead of trying to change how she is dressing I would focus on helping her to feel happy how she is and not bothered about appearance.

I think it's a good thing young people are less focussed on very objectified appearance.

I was your daughter OP, in the 1970s. Large breasted and fairly pretty (if I can say that) and I couldn't walk down the street without being leered at and catcalled. The breast reduction I had last summer (for breast cancer unfortunately) has totally changed how I feel. I really wish that I had had the money and the confidence to ignore boyfriends and husbands to have the surgery 45 years ago. And, just for a bit of added reassurance: although the nipples were moved, they are more sensitive and responsive to touch than they ever were before, and I totally failed at BF despite 10 days of agony trying and several bruising encounters with the milking machine.

IIRC, one of the younger tennis players had breast reduction surgery at about 17 and her game improved significantly as a result.

Then your DD can get on with what's important to her, without feeling self-conscious.

Also can you get her to show you pictures etc of what she thinks looks good? It might give you a clearer idea of what about her appearance she doesnt like, which might enable you to support her to be a bit more comfortable in her own skin.

And whatever you don't use the words frumpy or dowdy.

Describe things factually and without referring to your own opinions of the current trends "is the jumper meant to be quite loose or do you want to see if the smaller size fits you better". "Those joggers look comfortable but you might want another pair of trousers if you are going somewhere with a smarter dress code."

I've had to remind myself lately that what I think is "unattractive" is quite different to what today's 18 year olds perceive and that their opinion is no less valid than mine. There are lots of different ways to look good

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints

Op, you are getting increasingly aggressive and defensive on an anonymous Internet forum, and fail to realise that of course you have influence over your daughter both positively and negatively.

I find it hard for you to dismiss your dd dislike of her breasts when you told her you wished you had the reduction years ago. Equally what you say might not be how she hears it.

Hardly fucking surprising when people are reading & absorbing what she's saying!!

Starting with new underwear (don’t forget nice pants to match the well fitting bras) sounds like a good plan. Do you think she’d like any more “base”, moisturiser, perfume etc? I feel like concentrating on those rather than clothes and makeup might be the best start. Although good quality, well fitting joggers sounds like a good idea as well as the jeans she wants.
As far as breast reduction, taking her seriously, looking into options (would she be eligible for NHS care, how much will it cost privately) alongside suggesting she needs to be a bit older before actually having the surgery will show her that you’re taking her seriously.
Also on the boob issue, I expect my dd as a younger teen probably said things to her big boobed friends in complete awe and jealousy, that may have been taken differently, she wouldn’t have understood that big boobs were a problem, She’s 19, says she’s still waiting for hers to grow but has found her style of non cleavage requiring outfits for going out. Leggings or trackies and jumpers are her every day wear though.

I didn't feel comfortable with clothes that showed my "shape" then and I still don't.

It's actually a weird convention for women when you think about it - that we should want to wear form fitting clothes that show our body shape. No one expects that from the average man, do they? 🤔

My breasts felt fairly large as a teenager and I was definitely self conscious. It was mostly my mum taking about them that I remember finding embarrassing - I can still hear her commenting to someone when I was in my early teens, that I already had "quite a big chist*"

*imagine Scottish accent here 😏 Not sure why some folk say it like that.

I was involved in a martial art so the clothing was the same for everyone and loose and comfy. So I was happy in that environment.

I've tried a few times over the years to wear a dress or something outside my comfort zone. Now I'm my 40s I'm thinking why would I not want to be comfy?

I hope your DD can feel more comfortable as time goes on.

Its seems to be her boobs that are making her feel like this
I have large boobs and for me i have generally tried to just embrace them And almost see them as an asset but I fully see why for some that wouldn't work
Tops can be more revealing with larger boobs and people do look and not just men so it could make her self conscious
What age would you think it was ok to have a breast reduction?
In the meantime good minimiser bras may be the way to go

I will say at that age i lived in trackies / jeans and hoodies then i found clubbing and started dressing up more ( still rarely dresses etc) but more fitted trousers or jeans and fitted tops

I was an f cup and was really self conscious about my boobs at that age. Nice crop tops and bralets didn't fit, tops gaped, if you wear something baggy it hangs off your boobs ans makes you look bigger, bikinis were a complete nightmare... argh. Such a pain.

Breastfeeding made them smaller (ie super saggy) and I am so much happier with the size now.

Try to take her to bravissimo for some properly fitting nice bras that don't have granny straps. Baggy clothes and hoodies are in at the moment. Does she look noticeably more scruffy than her friends?

RE the reduction, that's a rough one because I can see why she wants one honestly. But it might also mean she is unable to breastfeed (if she wants to). I know a few people who had one youngish and were glad they did.

This thread just makes me feel sad and depressed. OP’s dd hasn’t asked for a restyle? There’s nothing wrong with what she’s wearing? People are advising her to look at Gok’s rubbish and people instagrams accounts for ideas on what people wear, why does she need to change what she’s wearing? Let her wear what she likes.

This thread is just a bunch of women judging a 17 year old on her clothing choice and trying to change her style, what happened to women supporting each other whatever they look like?

OP, leave your dd be. Let her wear what she wants to wear, tell her she’s beautiful inside and out, don’t call her frumpy or shapeless. She doesn’t need your fashion advice or anyone else’s.

@Lovemusic33 The OP expressly states that her DD has been miserable and complaining to her mum that she's not happy with her appearance...she's trying to help her daughter.

There's no judgement there at all.

@lovemusic33 what verymuchflaggingminty said. We were responding to the OP saying her dd was unhappy with how she looks. Read all the OP posts again. I think it is liberating to find your own style, and be happy with it. Nothing shallow about it. Helping someone else find their look isn't forcing your look onto them but showing them what is out there and letting them experiment.

I would have loved someone to help me with clothes, hair, make up ideas, etc as my mother wasn't around to do it. For me a make over by Bobby Brown was a defining moment in self confidence. They didn't tell me what to wear, they showed me colours which suited me and brought out the best against my hair and skin colour.

@OfstedOffred

And whatever you don't use the words frumpy or dowdy.

Describe things factually and without referring to your own opinions of the current trends "is the jumper meant to be quite loose or do you want to see if the smaller size fits you better". "Those joggers look comfortable but you might want another pair of trousers if you are going somewhere with a smarter dress code."

I've had to remind myself lately that what I think is "unattractive" is quite different to what today's 18 year olds perceive and that their opinion is no less valid than mine. There are lots of different ways to look good

This is very good advice.

I thought the point was that the ops dd wasn't happy with her clothes etc? If she wants to wear them great but if she wants help then surely that's why everyone is making suggestions.

The problem is that the DD is caught between two conflicting things. She wants to wear the same as her peers, and she also wants to look good. I had this problem in the 90s when the look was designed for Kate Moss shaped waifs, not plump hourglasses. I basically had a choice between wearing clothes that were unfashionable (in my peer group) or unflattering. Its unrealistic to say a 17 year old should not care. Most do. It might be possible to adapt the look so its suits her better, but ultimately she may never feel great until she is a bit older and has more options than the teen uniform. Do try to get her to see though that if a woman doesn't look good in clothes it's the clothes that are wrong, not her body.