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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD 13 has decided I'm an abuser and wants to cut me off

146 replies

euromum · 22/06/2021 14:45

Really struggling to know what to do here. Dd and I have often rubbed each other up the wrong way - we can both be argumentative and stubborn and 'normal' disagreements over behaviour and house rules (politeness, no phones after 9pm, lying, that kind of thing) have escalated to shouting much more often than I would have liked. I bear the responsibility for this - I know it's my job as a parent to keep a lid on emotions and model good conflict management, but due to considerable mental health issues when she was younger I didn't manage it. On a few occasions - which I now HUGELY regret and did at the time too - I smacked her. I KNOW this is really, really unforgivable. I've done a lot of therapy to deal with my issues, which are all around my own childhood and I'm well aware are basically triggered by so much of my daughter's behaviour, whatever she is doing. I.e. it's not her fault in any way, it's how the interactions make me feel that's been the problem. But in recent years while we have still argued, I have not smacked her for a very long time and consider that something incredibly wrong and a very sad part of our past. I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

The difficulty now is that, at almost 14, for the past couple of years she has of course wanted to argue the point over everything - why we should let her go out at night with no information about where and who with, why we are the worst parents in the world basically. I find it really difficult not to get sucked into it, and as we're both debaters by nature there have been arguments. But not shouting at a level that could be called "violent" or uncontrolled. It's not helped by the fact that my husband hates conflict to an extent that he shuts down as soon as someone expresses a difference of opinion, so my speaking contrasts with his silence. Dd has now decided that I am always shouting at her, and that I always did throughout her early years and childhood. And that I hit her in anger frequently. This is such a misrepresentation it makes me want to weep with frustration. We (me and her, and the whole family including her dad and younger brother) have been basically happy in a very average kind of way throughout her childhood, punctuated by these few occasions when I was unwell and unable to manage my emotions and behaviour, that understandably loom large in the memory. Of course she is upset, hurt and sad about those occasions - so am I. But she has now stopped speaking to me, refuses to look at me or stop if I accidentally get in her way. When she does speak to me it is to say what a terrible human being I am and how there is never any excuse for shouting and violence towards a child. She says there is no way to repair things, I had my chance to be a good mother and I failed. She claims to be terrified of me, despite how much better our relationship has been in recent years. It has just taken a nosedive over the last few months and she says this is why, but I don't know what triggered it.

I just don't know what to do. She has a history of lying to the extent that we don't know if she even believes what really happened over what she says happened (several occasions when we have been there and seen various incidents, she has made us doubt what we actually saw). This has usually been to take any guilt and responsibility off herself so that she is the innocent victim. We've seen a family therapist to try to help her with this feeling of victimhood as we don't know where it came from and it seems to be so much bigger than 'normal' jealousy over her younger sibling. Now I just don't know if she's right and I was abusive. Or whether that's a manipulation and twisting of a very sad and difficult dynamic between us that I am constantly trying to repair, and have been for years. I know I need to atone for my behaviour somehow, I just don't know how. At the same time, I'm still her parent and at almost 14, living under the roof of her parents who are just trying to do their best for her, surely she doesn't get to just cut me out of her life completely?

If anyone has any idea what to do, I really would appreciate some help. I'm expecting to be flamed for the shouting and smacking when she was younger. I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow. While taking her as seriously as she needs - but I just don't know if she's exaggerating for effect or if it really is that bad. Please help :-(

OP posts:
euromum · 22/06/2021 14:58

Such a long post sorry. Just had a look at the stately homes thread too, maybe this post would be better in Relationships. I am an abusive parent. How on earth can I fix it?

OP posts:
InTropicalTrumpsLand · 22/06/2021 15:07

Coming here and asking for help don't sound like the actions of a cruel, abusive parent.
Of course shouting and smacking aren't good, but coming from someone whose parents did the same, at her age I was able to have a frank conversation with my parents regarding their past actions and regrets.
13 is very young to talk about cutting parents off - where do you think she had heard about this possibility? I'd check her internet history. I'd also be wary about her exagerating her childhood experiences, and consider the possibility of mental illness. Maybe a chat with the school could be worth it.
(Relationships could be a good place for this thread. Posters are very reasonable there).

CoronaBanana · 22/06/2021 15:20

I think you need to stop apologising to her. You shouted and smacked her on occasion when she was younger which obviously is not the best but you've said sorry. It's time to move on. It sounds like she's taking your guilt and using that to manipulate you.

She's still very young and you still need to parent her. Don't be afraid to give her boundaries/discipline her (even if she does bring up the smacking). She doesn't get to behave how she likes just because you made a few mistakes when she was younger.

Can you maybe speak to someone about getting therapy for both of you, so you can talk it through together and move on from the past?

Iggi999 · 22/06/2021 15:45

The fact that you seek to be the sole disciplinarian won't be helping. If you dh would step up and allow you to be the "nice parent" more often that would help.

FamBae · 22/06/2021 15:55

I agree with pp stop apologising, she has found your Achilles Heel and is milking it for all it's worth, and agree that your dh needs to step up and back you up.

titchy · 22/06/2021 15:56

Sympathies and no real advice - except to say your dh is equally responsible for this. He's a parent and choosing to opt out of this aspect of parenting so you have to do it.

That's utterly shit parenting from him and utterly shit supportive-husband behaviour from him. He needs to understand that - and get on board or to some parenting classes. He needs to understand he is setting her up for an adult life where she feels neither parent is good to have a relationship with.

I don't think anything can be fully addressed until you're both on the same page with this.

Imapotato · 22/06/2021 15:58

Everyone shouts from time to time, it’s not the pinnacle of parenting, but you’d be very unusual if you had never shout d at your kids.

Smacking is a bit different, it’s not accepted now in the way it used to be, but if it was only on the odd occasion, as you say, then it’s time to put the past behind you and move on. (Though I know that this can be difficult from my own experiences, my mothers mental health ruled my childhood and she was really pretty violent over many years).

But basically, she is 13, she can’t cut you off. She’s going to want money for clothes, lifts places and for you to be generally doing stuff for her. As the previous poster said, stop apologising to her. Treat her firmly, but fairly, be calm and consistent, but don’t let her nonsense fly. Now is the time to show her you are a reasonable rationale parent. I was much older than your dd by the time my mothers mental health improved enough for her to do that, but despite everything we now have a good relationship.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 22/06/2021 16:01

Definitely move on from the self abasement.

It is absolutely exemplary that you've admitted to, owned, and wholeheartedly apologised for your past behaviour instead of gasslighting her about it, and that you're invested in being calmer and more under control now.

Not many people own their mistakes like that and actively work to change.

However there is no more apologising and rehashing to be usefully done, and she is milking your deep sense of shame to stop you having boundaries.

She's a young teen child and of course she's going to boundary test and use whatever gives her power over you - it doesn't mean she's bad, but that you've inadvertently handed her massive power when she's too immature for it.

Draw a line under the past and be very calm and matter of fact. You are her mother and she lives with you. It is your job to keep her safe and allow her to grow up to be a competent, qualified, useful adult. For now she's 13 and while you absolutely want to hear her voews, experiences and opinions, you and her father have the final say on house rules.

Don't plead for her love and forgiveness, just let her know that you love her unconditionally and she doesn't have to love you back, but she does have to follow basic social rules like saying hello and answering direct questions briefly and not crashing into you, and she does have to follow house rules including time to get home and telling you or her father where she'll be and with whom.

Try to be factual and unemotional and calm but firm for now - and talk to your husband, he absolutely cannot be undermining you, you absolutely have to be a united team.

Imapotato · 22/06/2021 16:03

Also, your husband needs to step up and do some of the discipline. Otherwise you’ll always be the bad guy in her eyes. He sounds completely useless abs like he could do with a good kick up the bum.

Thatsmycupoftea · 22/06/2021 16:06

From my own experience only: she is pushing you because she is feeling unwell and she needs you more than ever. My mum never hit or shouted at me but she was a very busy single parent who had little time for me during childhood and when I hit my teens my hormones turned me into somebody you wouldn't believe if you met me today. I'm not dismissing your past but as a pp said you were unwell and have apologized so now you all need to move on and stop hashing this out again and again.
I took my mental health issues out on my mum and was horrible and destructive. Its because she was the person I needed validation and love from the most and I felt scared of my own huge new feelings. One thing I have to say is my mum solidly stood by me but also stood up to me. She was able to give me the space I needed while firmly ensuring boundaries keeping me safe. She got me help with my mental health from specialist services.

Me and my mum are now so close and we are able to talk about that time and move on. Shes my best friend. I can't tell you how horrible i was to her and I feel ashamed about that now. It has helped me realize that hormones are a big factor in my mh and I have been able to take care of myself when thet are haywire such as in pregnancy (which did trigger my mh difficulties).

My advise to you is to stay solid and be firm with her. Recognize the past but now move on. Love her and be there for her but don't let her rule the roost. And get her professional mh support..

ViewFromTheSteeple · 22/06/2021 16:06

we are the worst parents in the world basically really? Has she heard of Josef Fritzl? Teenagers and their hyperbole.

I assume that whilst you are the worst parents you are still paying for her phone and allowing her to use it, still allowing her access to the internet that you pay for on devices you pay for? Maybe a starting point would be to point this out to her.

Secondly stop apologising for your past behaviour. Either she accepts your apology or she doesn't but she cannot keep using it as a thing to hit you with.

She is very happy to play the victim and will continue to do so. I think therapy and you talking to the school would help her. I would admit to smacking her in the past but explain why and that she continually brings this up with you.

PlanDeRaccordement · 22/06/2021 16:08

Sigh. I disagree with pp, as you have confessed you hit your DD multiple times when she was younger and also confessed that you often even today fund yourself shouting at her. The fact you say it’s “never uncontrolled” shouting sent a chill down me...you are in control and yet you still shout/verbally abuse her?

Time to face facts. You were an abusive parent and still may be. Most abused children weren’t abused and unhappy 100% of the time. But the few golden times don’t make up for or erase the existence of real abuse. Or their vivid memories of it.

I think it is horrible that you say she has a victimhood complex, when she is quite clearly a victim. You need to accept not only were you abusive, but she is a victim of childhood abuse. Your DH was also complicit in it as he sat by and did nothing to protect your DD from you.

I would try and get her trauma therapy for herself. Not to “repair” your relationship because it’s not about you. It’s about what your DD needs for herself. Good therapy for her will also discourage her from the attention seeking self destructive rebellion cycle she is in with you.

I would respect her wishes regarding contact and boundaries, pushing the issue is only going to have her react by going further away from you.

Your job is to get her what SHE needs. You have no right to a relationship with her or to make your help contingent on her forgiveness or her loving you back. You just leave a door open for her, and maybe when she is older and wiser she might understand better you were struggling with MH and you have changed and are remorseful. She might then give you a second chance adult to adult on a relationship. So there is hope.

mistermagpie · 22/06/2021 16:16

I would be interested to hear your daughters side actually, because her experience seems fairly similar to mine growing up and I wasn't making it up... you have owned some of your behaviour but she is still a child and therefore you do have to bear the greater weight of responsibility here, so I don't think you are really doing anything over and above that. Maybe her experience of being smacked affected her more than in might affect other children, or you yourself? Me and my brother were both hit by my dad and he still has a good relationship with him where I... dont.

I don't think you need to keep apologising to her, but I would advise you to tread carefully here because it's not too long before she can choose to walk away from you for good. The therapy is a good step and I really wish my parents had tried that, I also wish my dad hadn't been such a wet blanket and let my mum 'do the talking' all the time - your DH needs to step up here.

I moved out at 18. Both sides tried over the years to maintain a relationship, but we never really managed it and now I haven't seen or spoken to my parents in 8 years. They have never met my three children and never will.

I am a cautionary tale for you and I'm not saying the situation is the same at all, but I was desperate to get away from my parents from a very young age and I did it as soon as I could. Don't end up like my family, it's horrible really.

So, keep trying with therapy and get your husband to actually have a voice here. Try not to see her actions as those of an adult, she's behaving horribly and it must be really hard but she is desperately looking for something - be it boundaries, love, attention, whatever - try and figure out what it is. She's also hormonal at that age and that can be really tough for some girls, not all, but she might be struggling to control her emotions because of it. I'm not saying give her a pass for bad behaviour or beat yourself up forever for your past mistakes, but don't give up on her either.

mistermagpie · 22/06/2021 16:18

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sigh. I disagree with pp, as you have confessed you hit your DD multiple times when she was younger and also confessed that you often even today fund yourself shouting at her. The fact you say it’s “never uncontrolled” shouting sent a chill down me...you are in control and yet you still shout/verbally abuse her?

Time to face facts. You were an abusive parent and still may be. Most abused children weren’t abused and unhappy 100% of the time. But the few golden times don’t make up for or erase the existence of real abuse. Or their vivid memories of it.

I think it is horrible that you say she has a victimhood complex, when she is quite clearly a victim. You need to accept not only were you abusive, but she is a victim of childhood abuse. Your DH was also complicit in it as he sat by and did nothing to protect your DD from you.

I would try and get her trauma therapy for herself. Not to “repair” your relationship because it’s not about you. It’s about what your DD needs for herself. Good therapy for her will also discourage her from the attention seeking self destructive rebellion cycle she is in with you.

I would respect her wishes regarding contact and boundaries, pushing the issue is only going to have her react by going further away from you.

Your job is to get her what SHE needs. You have no right to a relationship with her or to make your help contingent on her forgiveness or her loving you back. You just leave a door open for her, and maybe when she is older and wiser she might understand better you were struggling with MH and you have changed and are remorseful. She might then give you a second chance adult to adult on a relationship. So there is hope.

Yes, all of this really.
Fitforforty · 22/06/2021 16:25

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sigh. I disagree with pp, as you have confessed you hit your DD multiple times when she was younger and also confessed that you often even today fund yourself shouting at her. The fact you say it’s “never uncontrolled” shouting sent a chill down me...you are in control and yet you still shout/verbally abuse her?

Time to face facts. You were an abusive parent and still may be. Most abused children weren’t abused and unhappy 100% of the time. But the few golden times don’t make up for or erase the existence of real abuse. Or their vivid memories of it.

I think it is horrible that you say she has a victimhood complex, when she is quite clearly a victim. You need to accept not only were you abusive, but she is a victim of childhood abuse. Your DH was also complicit in it as he sat by and did nothing to protect your DD from you.

I would try and get her trauma therapy for herself. Not to “repair” your relationship because it’s not about you. It’s about what your DD needs for herself. Good therapy for her will also discourage her from the attention seeking self destructive rebellion cycle she is in with you.

I would respect her wishes regarding contact and boundaries, pushing the issue is only going to have her react by going further away from you.

Your job is to get her what SHE needs. You have no right to a relationship with her or to make your help contingent on her forgiveness or her loving you back. You just leave a door open for her, and maybe when she is older and wiser she might understand better you were struggling with MH and you have changed and are remorseful. She might then give you a second chance adult to adult on a relationship. So there is hope.

I’m afraid I agree with this.

Why are you choosing to shout at your daughter?

KeepingTrack · 22/06/2021 16:29

If you are at the point where she wants to cut ties, then you need an outsider to step in.

Go and find a family counsellor. You ALL need to have an input but I’d say you and your dd need to start. Sort whatever the issue is, what your own boundaries are etc…
I’d say you also need your DH input because whatever you decide to do/boundaries, he will need to do too.

But I don’t think it’s going to work wo someone to guide you. She is unlikely to really listen to you or your pov. You will struggle to stay neutral.

KeepingTrack · 22/06/2021 16:31

I disagree with the abusive label from what the OP has said.

Being abusive is much more than shouting or having smacked your dc when they were little.
You can be abusive wo doing any of those. You can be a parent in need of help of you do those rather than one that is abusive.

That’s also why I don’t think this forum is the right place to ask for help there. The OP needs outside support, RL support.

VodkaSlimline · 22/06/2021 16:35

Fucksake most people on here were smacked plenty as kids! She's obviously not traumatised or scared of you or she wouldn't be acting like this. Stop entertaining it. Grey rock, liberal use of "that's nice dear", and consequences for bad behaviour.

Sonofabiscuit · 22/06/2021 16:35

Yes you all need therapy .
Also could your dd stay with a relative to give you both some space

dottiedodah · 22/06/2021 16:37

Problem is at 13 she is growing up and deciding what in her life is fair and just .Thin is here as others have said ,this is for her to decide really You say you were happy in an "average way" a lot of the time as a family but was she?She is a teenager and some of this can be attributed towards her difficult behaviour as well. I think some sort of Counselling for you may help .Just you at first then you will get support .Afterwards her and the family too.As she grows she will possibly realise that you had some MH issues and it wasnt your fault.With some work now I think this RL can be rescued but it will take time of course .

mistermagpie · 22/06/2021 16:50

@VodkaSlimline

Fucksake most people on here were smacked plenty as kids! She's obviously not traumatised or scared of you or she wouldn't be acting like this. Stop entertaining it. Grey rock, liberal use of "that's nice dear", and consequences for bad behaviour.
This is why I would be interested to hear the daughters side. One persons 'smack' might be very different to another's and shouting, well, that can vary too. We don't know what was said when the mother was shouting or how the daughter may have taken that or felt about it.

Shouting and smacking can be forms of discipline I suppose, but they absolutely can form part of a pattern of abuse and I'm sure you know that.

Marty13 · 22/06/2021 16:51

Sorry but she sounds like a typical teenage drama lama. I was smacked plenty of times as a child and I can safely say that I deserved it. And I am not traumatised.

And yelling also isn't ideal but it happens and it's not abuse, for crying out loud. It happens because parents can be tired and, let's face it, children can be exceptionally agravating at times.

I think that by apologizing too much you've given her the impression that what you've done must be truly awful as otherwise why would you be still apologizing years later ? Stop apologizing and maybe seek family counselling, so that the behaviour can be analysed by a professional who can tell your daughter officially that no, she's not an abused child.

The above obviously is based on the assomption that your description of past events is accurate.

Marty13 · 22/06/2021 16:52

Assumption*

roobicoobi · 22/06/2021 16:54

@PlanDeRaccordement

Sigh. I disagree with pp, as you have confessed you hit your DD multiple times when she was younger and also confessed that you often even today fund yourself shouting at her. The fact you say it’s “never uncontrolled” shouting sent a chill down me...you are in control and yet you still shout/verbally abuse her?

Time to face facts. You were an abusive parent and still may be. Most abused children weren’t abused and unhappy 100% of the time. But the few golden times don’t make up for or erase the existence of real abuse. Or their vivid memories of it.

I think it is horrible that you say she has a victimhood complex, when she is quite clearly a victim. You need to accept not only were you abusive, but she is a victim of childhood abuse. Your DH was also complicit in it as he sat by and did nothing to protect your DD from you.

I would try and get her trauma therapy for herself. Not to “repair” your relationship because it’s not about you. It’s about what your DD needs for herself. Good therapy for her will also discourage her from the attention seeking self destructive rebellion cycle she is in with you.

I would respect her wishes regarding contact and boundaries, pushing the issue is only going to have her react by going further away from you.

Your job is to get her what SHE needs. You have no right to a relationship with her or to make your help contingent on her forgiveness or her loving you back. You just leave a door open for her, and maybe when she is older and wiser she might understand better you were struggling with MH and you have changed and are remorseful. She might then give you a second chance adult to adult on a relationship. So there is hope.

This. And it's very well put.

And the poster who mentioned Josef Fritzl in the 'you are not the worst parent' context - WTAF - is this where the bar for parenting lies Confused

sotiredofthislonelylife · 22/06/2021 17:17

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

Definitely move on from the self abasement.

It is absolutely exemplary that you've admitted to, owned, and wholeheartedly apologised for your past behaviour instead of gasslighting her about it, and that you're invested in being calmer and more under control now.

Not many people own their mistakes like that and actively work to change.

However there is no more apologising and rehashing to be usefully done, and she is milking your deep sense of shame to stop you having boundaries.

She's a young teen child and of course she's going to boundary test and use whatever gives her power over you - it doesn't mean she's bad, but that you've inadvertently handed her massive power when she's too immature for it.

Draw a line under the past and be very calm and matter of fact. You are her mother and she lives with you. It is your job to keep her safe and allow her to grow up to be a competent, qualified, useful adult. For now she's 13 and while you absolutely want to hear her voews, experiences and opinions, you and her father have the final say on house rules.

Don't plead for her love and forgiveness, just let her know that you love her unconditionally and she doesn't have to love you back, but she does have to follow basic social rules like saying hello and answering direct questions briefly and not crashing into you, and she does have to follow house rules including time to get home and telling you or her father where she'll be and with whom.

Try to be factual and unemotional and calm but firm for now - and talk to your husband, he absolutely cannot be undermining you, you absolutely have to be a united team.

Absolutely this!
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