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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD 13 has decided I'm an abuser and wants to cut me off

146 replies

euromum · 22/06/2021 14:45

Really struggling to know what to do here. Dd and I have often rubbed each other up the wrong way - we can both be argumentative and stubborn and 'normal' disagreements over behaviour and house rules (politeness, no phones after 9pm, lying, that kind of thing) have escalated to shouting much more often than I would have liked. I bear the responsibility for this - I know it's my job as a parent to keep a lid on emotions and model good conflict management, but due to considerable mental health issues when she was younger I didn't manage it. On a few occasions - which I now HUGELY regret and did at the time too - I smacked her. I KNOW this is really, really unforgivable. I've done a lot of therapy to deal with my issues, which are all around my own childhood and I'm well aware are basically triggered by so much of my daughter's behaviour, whatever she is doing. I.e. it's not her fault in any way, it's how the interactions make me feel that's been the problem. But in recent years while we have still argued, I have not smacked her for a very long time and consider that something incredibly wrong and a very sad part of our past. I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

The difficulty now is that, at almost 14, for the past couple of years she has of course wanted to argue the point over everything - why we should let her go out at night with no information about where and who with, why we are the worst parents in the world basically. I find it really difficult not to get sucked into it, and as we're both debaters by nature there have been arguments. But not shouting at a level that could be called "violent" or uncontrolled. It's not helped by the fact that my husband hates conflict to an extent that he shuts down as soon as someone expresses a difference of opinion, so my speaking contrasts with his silence. Dd has now decided that I am always shouting at her, and that I always did throughout her early years and childhood. And that I hit her in anger frequently. This is such a misrepresentation it makes me want to weep with frustration. We (me and her, and the whole family including her dad and younger brother) have been basically happy in a very average kind of way throughout her childhood, punctuated by these few occasions when I was unwell and unable to manage my emotions and behaviour, that understandably loom large in the memory. Of course she is upset, hurt and sad about those occasions - so am I. But she has now stopped speaking to me, refuses to look at me or stop if I accidentally get in her way. When she does speak to me it is to say what a terrible human being I am and how there is never any excuse for shouting and violence towards a child. She says there is no way to repair things, I had my chance to be a good mother and I failed. She claims to be terrified of me, despite how much better our relationship has been in recent years. It has just taken a nosedive over the last few months and she says this is why, but I don't know what triggered it.

I just don't know what to do. She has a history of lying to the extent that we don't know if she even believes what really happened over what she says happened (several occasions when we have been there and seen various incidents, she has made us doubt what we actually saw). This has usually been to take any guilt and responsibility off herself so that she is the innocent victim. We've seen a family therapist to try to help her with this feeling of victimhood as we don't know where it came from and it seems to be so much bigger than 'normal' jealousy over her younger sibling. Now I just don't know if she's right and I was abusive. Or whether that's a manipulation and twisting of a very sad and difficult dynamic between us that I am constantly trying to repair, and have been for years. I know I need to atone for my behaviour somehow, I just don't know how. At the same time, I'm still her parent and at almost 14, living under the roof of her parents who are just trying to do their best for her, surely she doesn't get to just cut me out of her life completely?

If anyone has any idea what to do, I really would appreciate some help. I'm expecting to be flamed for the shouting and smacking when she was younger. I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow. While taking her as seriously as she needs - but I just don't know if she's exaggerating for effect or if it really is that bad. Please help :-(

OP posts:
Trytothinkofaname · 22/06/2021 17:32

My mum hit my sister. Not everyday. Probably only for a few years (13-15 maybe?)

She shouted at lot. Rage. Lost it shouting.

My sister wound her up (not sisters fault..not saying that...) but mum did not control herself.

I cannot remember the how/how manys etc

Just my view of my mum is bashing my sister over the head and shoulders whilst she was huddled on the floor.

It was terrifying to watch

I am a complete pacifier and people pleaser - and have been since then. If I could keep mum happy she wouldn't shout/hit.

My mum and sister probably had other ineractions during my sister's teens. I do not recall them.

My mum's dad physically abused my grandmother...so yes...there is history, not all of mums fault. BUT my mother should have controlled herself.

Get therapy for your daughter. And your son. And you.

Flowers500 · 22/06/2021 17:42

I really don’t understand how people here can minimise this and say that I’d you’re not Fritzl then it’s fine?!?

It sounds like you need some serious family therapy. It sounds like she feels you still don’t really get the impact, and if you’re still parenting somewhat in that way then it no doubt reminds her of when you really really lost control. Your behaviour towards her then was abusive. You shouldn’t minimise that. However equally she is using a very real grievance to emotionally manipulate. It all needs someone detached from the situation and experienced in these things to untangle.

She needs to see that you have changed and that you don’t minimise it. You can’t claim that she was happy as a child, sorry but you don’t know what went though her head after the abuse.

You need help to be a completely nee parent. She needs help to move forward. And then seperate you need help to move forward as a family.

MaybeCrazy2 · 22/06/2021 17:46

Sorry but I agree with your daughter. When you was hitting her -a child!- your child!- did you not think for a second one day she might grow up and be an adult?

It amazes me that parents think kids forget things like that, they don’t.

You think it’s bad now, wait until she is a parent herself, she will love her kid so much she wouldn’t be able to imagine how someone could be so cruel to their own and it will cause another rift, so heads up and prepare for that one in the future.

MaybeCrazy2 · 22/06/2021 17:47

And poor mental health is not a lavish excuse to hit a child.

euromum · 22/06/2021 17:50

Thank you all so much for your replies. It is very reassuring to see a mixture of views, which basically ALL reflect exactly what I think myself depending on the viewpoint. I completely agree that what I see one way my daughter very legitimately might see another way, and that is where we need to start. It's also really helpful to know that others recognise the possible different dynamics here of her "using" the guilt I feel as she is starting to define herself and her own experience much more (not particularly in a deliberately manipulative way). But I think I need to take charge of myself a bit more - both in "negative terms" ie seeing my role as "abuser" (whether or not I agree with the label) is to step aside and let her deal with things in her way, and in "positive" terms like stopping apologising and not allowing the power that gives her over me to make the dynamics more complicated.

We have already made an appointment with a therapist for her, at her request, and I would really like to follow that up with some all-family therapy yes. I do feel that even though I might have lost the right to tell her how to see things, we do still have the role as parents to keep her "cushioned" and seeing herself as part of the family unit - or at least give her our best attempt to have that, for her good and the rest of us. Also, I very much agree with all of you that my husband needs to step up! He does a great job of handling the "slow burner" issues but in moments of disagreement I am left to be the bad cop, and I hate it. We have been over it many times, and it's something I would absolutely hope can be handled better with some family therapy.

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 22/06/2021 17:51

Maybecrazy2 a hell of a lot of my generation must have grown up with parents who didn't love us, by your reasoning.

euromum · 22/06/2021 17:52

@PlanDeRaccordement thank you for your straight speaking advice. I think this is exactly how I need to approach it, as this is how she sees things, even though I also agree with pp about teenage dynamics and "milking" my guilt. In practical terms that has to be the way forward.

OP posts:
Summersnake · 22/06/2021 17:52

My parents were abusive ,smacked me plenty of times .didn’t meet my needs or ensure I had basic items
I certainly didn’t argue back or be rude ,because I was scared of them.
I would not of behaved as you describe your daughter behaving as I would of had a table thrown at me ,or worse .
I think be firm and fair ,and take no notice of her dramas ,she’s clearly getting the upper hand here ,not good

MaybeCrazy2 · 22/06/2021 17:53

Well it’s well known that the past generations didn’t parent great. You probably just don’t know that because your in it so can’t see it from a different view point.

Are you proud your parents used to smash you around the living room floor?

Theworldisfullofgs · 22/06/2021 17:55

Have you thought about family therapy for you, your dh and your dd.

You need help and your dh needs to step up.
What's happened, happened. You recognise its a bad thing and your dd needs help to deal with what's happened. She isn't developed enough to rationalise what's happened nor old enough to bring understanding. Most adults can't do this and her brain isn't fully developed and won't be until her mid 20s.

It sounds like you want her to accept what's happened and move on. She won't have the skills to do that nor should she at her age.

But you want it to be better and that's a start. You need to find a safe space where she can talk to you and you can hear her.

Really think family therapy is your best option.

Elisandra · 22/06/2021 17:56

I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

Where did this idea come from? ‘Angry mummy’ absolutely was you, however unpalatable that feels now, and whatever the explanations for your behaviour.

euromum · 22/06/2021 17:57

@mistermagpie and @Trytothinkofaname I'm so sorry you and your families/siblings have experienced this too.

@MaybeCrazy2 indeed I know poor mental health is not an excuse and this really is why I am tying myself in knots about it. I known and absolutely agree it was not acceptable.

OP posts:
LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 22/06/2021 18:00

Are you proud your parents used to smash you around the living room floor?

That’s an appalling thing to say to the pp who has just posted about being abused. Sarcastic, nasty, totally inappropriate.

ancientgran · 22/06/2021 18:01

I had one like this, he was so challenging and everything we did was wrong. He's lovely now as an adult, worked out all his angst. There is hope.

Newgirls · 22/06/2021 18:02

Family therapy is the way forward. And for you and your partner to tell your daughter that you are listening and want to make things better. Which you clearly do.

Those saying here being smacked didn’t harm them. I doubt that as you sound like you think it’s ok to smack people. In any case this 13 year old has said no. And thankfully the op is listening to her.

MaybeCrazy2 · 22/06/2021 18:02

Think you’ve got your wires crossed there! @LemonJuiceFromConcentrate

DinaofCloud9 · 22/06/2021 18:05

Well it’s well known that the past generations didn’t parent great. You probably just don’t know that because your in it so can’t see it from a different view point.

Are you proud your parents used to smash you around the living room floor?

Is it well known that past generations parented badly? Says who? Every generation?

What a load of rubbish and as for the later comment to a previous poster you should be ashamed of yourself.

CasaBonita · 22/06/2021 18:06

How old was she when you smacked her? How many times? How much shouting did you do and for what reasons? Are we talking raised voices or full on shouting meltdown? How long did this go on for?

It's hard to say whether she's being a manipulative little madam without understanding a bit more about your behaviour at the time.....

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 22/06/2021 18:10

Have I got my wires crossed? Apologies if so. I thought you were replying to the post directly above yours.

That said, I can’t really see anything from any pp to which that would have been a reasonable reply. This is an emotive topic for me though and I will just leave it

Yummymummy2020 · 22/06/2021 18:15

I think whether it was widely accepted in the past is irrelevant really, smacking isn’t great. Certainly by today’s standards anyway, your past behaviour would be considered abusive. I agree therapy would be very useful and I hope you can have a better relationship with your daughter.

sadperson16 · 22/06/2021 18:17

What were you to do OP?
You felt unwell, you had poor role models, you tried your damnest and sometimes got it wrong.

Your partner needs to step up here. He doesn't like conflict? Nobody does really.
Your daughter is playing you.
If she wants to be an adult she needs to know you love her, you got it wrong sometimes and she gets things wrong.

Zanzibar55 · 22/06/2021 18:18

Stop apologizing to your daughter. She is hormonal with puberty and testing the boundaries.
Try explaining that no contact will involve no food being prepared, no washing done, no internet as you pay the bills.
Oh, and you are not an abusive parent. Only in today's society and especially on Mumsnet, smacking is the crime of the century. It never used to be and was normal in my day. (I'm late sixties). If it caused mental health problems, there ought to be a whole generation of fifty and sixty somethings with massive issues. That is clearly not the case.
Before someone sends me links 'proving' that smacking causes all sorts of problems, the studies done are talking about severe and continued corporal punishment, not the occasional smack for bad behaviour.
My own two children were smacked when young, and they are now well adjusted, resilient and successful women with families of their own.

Sunnyfreezesushi · 22/06/2021 18:18

If you can afford it then I would pay for therapy for her to explore her issues with you and any other issues.
People can have lasting issues just from a parent who had postnatal depression or due to sibling rivalry. So it is not so much about what you did in the past but how she felt then, now and how it has affected her. Some children are much more sensitive and the jealousy issues with the sibling you mention could be very relevant. Ultimately you want her to be happy and confident etc long term.

However, when it comes to teenagers and boundaries it is vital that parents work together so they cannot be played off against each other. It is very normal for teens to blame their parents for most things, shout/lie/cheat etc make a mess, it is mentally exhausting. If you are finding it hard your husband really needs to step up for your and your DD’s sake.

sadperson16 · 22/06/2021 18:20

euromum, if you had broken your arm would people expect perfect parenting? No
You had a broken mind and you made a few mistakes.

Iggi999 · 22/06/2021 18:20

Maybecrazy was your response to me? There have been good parents and bad parents in any generation. It's nonsense to say otherwise. Or to imply that if you love a child you can never lose your rag with them. In the (recent) past hitting a child would have been viewed as an acceptable part of that. It shouldn't have been, any more than hitting your partner is, but it was.
I don't know the extent of what the OP did any more than any of us. I don't feel able to categorise it as bad but not too bad/totally abusive.