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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD 13 has decided I'm an abuser and wants to cut me off

146 replies

euromum · 22/06/2021 14:45

Really struggling to know what to do here. Dd and I have often rubbed each other up the wrong way - we can both be argumentative and stubborn and 'normal' disagreements over behaviour and house rules (politeness, no phones after 9pm, lying, that kind of thing) have escalated to shouting much more often than I would have liked. I bear the responsibility for this - I know it's my job as a parent to keep a lid on emotions and model good conflict management, but due to considerable mental health issues when she was younger I didn't manage it. On a few occasions - which I now HUGELY regret and did at the time too - I smacked her. I KNOW this is really, really unforgivable. I've done a lot of therapy to deal with my issues, which are all around my own childhood and I'm well aware are basically triggered by so much of my daughter's behaviour, whatever she is doing. I.e. it's not her fault in any way, it's how the interactions make me feel that's been the problem. But in recent years while we have still argued, I have not smacked her for a very long time and consider that something incredibly wrong and a very sad part of our past. I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

The difficulty now is that, at almost 14, for the past couple of years she has of course wanted to argue the point over everything - why we should let her go out at night with no information about where and who with, why we are the worst parents in the world basically. I find it really difficult not to get sucked into it, and as we're both debaters by nature there have been arguments. But not shouting at a level that could be called "violent" or uncontrolled. It's not helped by the fact that my husband hates conflict to an extent that he shuts down as soon as someone expresses a difference of opinion, so my speaking contrasts with his silence. Dd has now decided that I am always shouting at her, and that I always did throughout her early years and childhood. And that I hit her in anger frequently. This is such a misrepresentation it makes me want to weep with frustration. We (me and her, and the whole family including her dad and younger brother) have been basically happy in a very average kind of way throughout her childhood, punctuated by these few occasions when I was unwell and unable to manage my emotions and behaviour, that understandably loom large in the memory. Of course she is upset, hurt and sad about those occasions - so am I. But she has now stopped speaking to me, refuses to look at me or stop if I accidentally get in her way. When she does speak to me it is to say what a terrible human being I am and how there is never any excuse for shouting and violence towards a child. She says there is no way to repair things, I had my chance to be a good mother and I failed. She claims to be terrified of me, despite how much better our relationship has been in recent years. It has just taken a nosedive over the last few months and she says this is why, but I don't know what triggered it.

I just don't know what to do. She has a history of lying to the extent that we don't know if she even believes what really happened over what she says happened (several occasions when we have been there and seen various incidents, she has made us doubt what we actually saw). This has usually been to take any guilt and responsibility off herself so that she is the innocent victim. We've seen a family therapist to try to help her with this feeling of victimhood as we don't know where it came from and it seems to be so much bigger than 'normal' jealousy over her younger sibling. Now I just don't know if she's right and I was abusive. Or whether that's a manipulation and twisting of a very sad and difficult dynamic between us that I am constantly trying to repair, and have been for years. I know I need to atone for my behaviour somehow, I just don't know how. At the same time, I'm still her parent and at almost 14, living under the roof of her parents who are just trying to do their best for her, surely she doesn't get to just cut me out of her life completely?

If anyone has any idea what to do, I really would appreciate some help. I'm expecting to be flamed for the shouting and smacking when she was younger. I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow. While taking her as seriously as she needs - but I just don't know if she's exaggerating for effect or if it really is that bad. Please help :-(

OP posts:
SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 08:30

I've been through/going through similar, but without ever smacking mine, so I really feel for you as I know how awful it is & how much we end up feeling guilty even when innocent. Mine only does it with me out of view of her dad, then cries to him that I'm abusive if I even say anything she doesn't like, let alone raise my voice. D D herself is vicious though & has physically attacked me on occasions too

I agree it's manipulative, but it isn't that straight forward, it's because they are hurting & lashing out at the parent they feel the most secure with. She needs counselling, but will likely throw that at you too.

I've learnt that if mine is kicking off, to go digging for the real reason she is upset & without fail there will be something

Get yourself some help. I asked GP who put me onto the Women Centre for support fir me & it really helps me cope better. DD is now coming round to the idea to seek counselling from them too 🤞🤞🤞

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 08:39

*I have 2. I have never abused them. Ever.

They have never acted like OP DD either. Possibly as a result of the way I treated them when they were younger. There was no anger or smacking. I don't shout, I mean of course I have on occasion, but it is not my standard approach and I would usually apologise for shouting whilst discussing the altercation with my DC.

They have grown up to be great people. Never given me any bother. Mumsnet doesn't like to hear about nice teenagers though.*

OFFS 🤦‍♀️

You have 2 teens, clearly not 2 difficult & struggling teens who are lashing out at the person they feel safest with when life gets too much. You are in no place to judge, so get your judgey knickers out of your ass Hmm

sadperson16 · 23/06/2021 08:39

I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow

there you go.

roobicoobi · 23/06/2021 08:43

@SingingInTheShithouse

I posted that as a response to the question how many if you have teenage children?

I didn't just pop along to day my teens were nice, because like I also said, mumsnet doesn't like to hear of nice teenagers.

I reserve my right to answer a question without being name called though.

And if you look at my posts you will see I actually have not made any judge comments to OP. I agreed with the poster who made a well written response and I replied to another who discussed hitting children.

Maybe you are the one who has the 'judgy knickers'

Newgirls · 23/06/2021 08:43

@sadperson16

I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow

there you go.

Op has a 13 year old - still parenting. On here asking for what then? You are being obtuse.

OP plenty of great books out there - the Philippa Perry one ‘the book I wish my parents had read’ is good for teens and even older parents too. If you prefer to ask those trained rather than us lot!

Bluntness100 · 23/06/2021 08:45

Shouting and the odd smack is not in the same league at all

Really? How far do you take that? You think it’s ok for a man to give his wife the odd smack too? Or do you just think it’s ok when it’s little children who can’t fight back?

What about strangers on the steeet that piss you off? Your boss? Your work colleague? Think it’s alright to give them the odd smack?

It might not be “in the same league” as other forms of abuse, but that doesn’t make it right, abuse is abuse and the daughter is allowed to not accept her mother as she was abused by her. What the op does to remedy it is a difficult question. Getting over abuse is never an easy road.

Newgirls · 23/06/2021 08:46

There are some very defensive parents on here - possibly uncomfortable about how they treat people/teens/kids. Some of the language about a teenage girl is 🤮 and we wonder how we end up with young women with low self esteem

Bluntness100 · 23/06/2021 08:49

@Newgirls

There are some very defensive parents on here - possibly uncomfortable about how they treat people/teens/kids. Some of the language about a teenage girl is 🤮 and we wonder how we end up with young women with low self esteem
Agree. And it’s always the folk who say it’s alright to hit children who’d be outraged if their partner or boss was giving them the “odd smack”

Happy to dole it out to little kids but not so happy to take it back

JanFebAnyMonth · 23/06/2021 08:55

You might like to look at Therapeuting Parenting OP - it will benefit her and you, whatever’s happened in the past. It doesn’t just work with children who have experienced childhood trauma and/ or who are no longer with their birth parents.

www.naotp.com/what-is-therapeutic-parenting

Bythemillpond · 23/06/2021 08:57

SingingInTheShithouse
I grew up with a mentally ill mother who would scream at me for 16 hours straight and then start again the next morning.

I too have 2 who have never been shouted at. I know what the results are if you do.
They weren’t the easiest children as both I suspect have ADHD (going through testing now)
They don’t shout at me or act like the ops Dd.

I am wondering now why op continues to shout at her dd

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 08:58

Roobi, if I replied to the wrong person, apologies, but the OP is asking for people who have experienced similar issues to herself. I have & have never smacked mine, so it's not necessarily as relevant to the OPs situation & her DDs behaviour as others are presuming.
Telling the OP of perfect teens, with the implications that they are that way because your a better parent does smack of judgey.

My teen is a wonderful human being, but she's suffered a lot & that can make her struggle, be very angry, lash out & accuse me of abuse that never happened & she only ever does it away from her dad. They can be incredibly manipulative when they are hurting & lashing out. I never thought mine would be that way ever as she's so honest. But here we are

YellowMonday · 23/06/2021 09:08

I find it incredible that people have the attitude that smacking is fine provided it is you child, but violence is bad. I'm sure if another adult hit you, you wouldn't be ok with it.

OP, I commend you on recognising there is an issue in your family. Many studies have shown smacking during childhood can lead to increased aggression, antisocial behavior, physical injury and mental health problems for teenagers.

Next steps is professional help, and it is a positive sign that you and your daughter has expressed an interest. It sounds like your daughter has a lot to work through, and you as a family need help in creating new ways in reacting/parenting. Including your husband, being absent is not ok.

Your daughter is only 14, I hate to say but the talking back, attitude and fighting will probably last a while yet. Puberty can be so hard on girls. And their mothers. But their is still a number of years of parenting and enforcing boundaries to go without risking your relationship.

The good news is it's not too late.

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 09:09

ByTheMill,

But that's you & your teens & your experience, it's not necessarily relevant to all by far, so can't be used as a benchmark for others

My DD has done the same as the OPs, but neither of us have ever raised a hand to her & we are not shouters & screamers. She accuses people of screaming at her though if you even so much as raise your voice to get her attention.

It can be as much about the perception of an angry, struggling teen as it is about any real abuse

Unfortunately CAHMs are (IME) generally rubbish, so there's a lot of teens out there that have not had needed & timely support for other issues & it all magnifies at this age & especially lately with Covid & comes out in force toward the parent they feel safest with. That's definitely the case with us, so I wouldn't presume it's any different for the OP, despite her owning up to the odd smack etc

AlternativePerspective · 23/06/2021 09:11

the term abuse is far too over-used and is an insult to victims of actual abuse.

People discipline their kids perhaps by raising their voice? They’re abusive.

Couple have fairly frequent arguments? He/she is abusive.

We’re bringing up a generation of children who are learning that no conflict is ever acceptable and who are never going to cope in the real world when they have to deal with authority e.g. in the workplace.

We’re not allowed to put in boundaries because “t doesn’t matter what you say the kids will do things you don’t know about anyway,” so best just leave them to it then? It’s interesting that a lot of the parents who say they did all sorts that their parents didn’t know about are the types who also put in fairly strict boundaries with their own children.

I’ve never smacked my child but more parents have than haven’t, even if it’s just been once. And any parent who says they have never shouted at their child is lying, or they’re bringing up a self entitled brat with a “you can’t touch me” attitude.

There is firm evidence that the millennial generation are finding it really difficult to adapt to authority for instance in workplaces etc because they have grown up to think that authority is wrong and equals abuse/infringement of their civil liberties.

I’m not saying that more parents should shout at their children. But more parents should definitely be parenting instead of believing that doing so is wrong because of the potential damage it might cause.

And the more we tell children that being disciplined is damaging to them, the more they are going to convince themselves they are/have been abused.

Bluntness100 · 23/06/2021 09:16

the term abuse is far too over-used and is an insult to victims of actual abuse

Hitting anyone is abuse. It’s assault. It doesn’t matter th age of the child. And I strongly suspect this was way more than a light smack on a nappied bottom.

Minimising abuse reflects badly on you. It doesn’t change peoples opinions of what abuse is. It simoly makes them question your motivation.

Violence is never the answer. It is always abuse. The only time it will ever ever be acceptable is if in self defence. Hitting a small child is never self defence. It’s assault. It’s abuse.

roobicoobi · 23/06/2021 09:17

Roobi, if I replied to the wrong person, apologies, but the OP is asking for people who have experienced similar issues to herself.

You replied to the right person but entirely out of context. The quote of mine you used was a direct response to a question posed by someone else on the thread. As far as I am aware development of conversation between posters who don't only address the OP is entirely normal on chat forums.

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 09:18

We’re bringing up a generation of children who are learning that no conflict is ever acceptable and who are never going to cope in the real world when they have to deal with authority e.g. in the workplace.

Got to say I agree with that to a large degree & I find myself worrying that us working so hard to protect DD from any aggression at home, as DH & I both had a level of it as kids, has led to her being massively over sensitive & she shouts abuse at the slightest thing & I do worry how she'll cope with a shorty boss etc

roobicoobi · 23/06/2021 09:20

Telling the OP of perfect teens, with the implications that they are that way because your a better parent does smack of judgey.

I wasn't telling the OP. I was answering the poster who asked if people had teens.

I even added in, twice now, that mumsnet doesn't like to hear of nice teens becaue I was anticipating someone like you picking me up for answering honestly.

There is a lot worse directed at OP on this thread than anything I have said. Go away and pick on them.

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 09:29

Crikey, childish response 🥴

Nobody is saying they don't like "perfect teens" I'm pleased you have them. It's not a baring on parenting though, but for a large part luck & the right MH support when needed, or not needing it at all.

My DD has suffered abuse, both with hospitals not believing her very real health problems & bullying in school leading to significant injuries the school left her with all day & more. We got absolutely no support at all.

Consequently I now have a very angry & troubled teen lashing out at me, the person she feels safest with. I've never hit her, or even genuinely raised my voice at her (I actually can't) but here we are. Within her lashing out, DD is actually abusing me, but she'd never see that atm of course, I've no idea if she ever will, but I'm the one with injuries & being frequently gaslighted.

So it's never that straightforward

roobicoobi · 23/06/2021 09:30

Crikey, childish response 🥴

I'm not being childish. You took my comment out of context. Either own it or leave it. Don't keep coming back further insulting me.

UserAtRandom · 23/06/2021 09:32

And any parent who says they have never shouted at their child is lying, or they’re bringing up a self entitled brat with a “you can’t touch me” attitude.

Why lying? I was shouted at so much as a child that it was one thing I swore I would never do to my own children. Their dad does shout at them, but I call him out on him every single time and he apologises later when everyone is calm.

And, no I don't have perfect teens or entitled brats, I just happen to think there are other ways of communicating/dealing with issues than shouting.

roobicoobi · 23/06/2021 09:32

Nobody is saying they don't like "perfect teens" I'm pleased you have them.

For fucks sake. Even I didn't say that. Why have you put 'perfect' in quotation marks? It's not a quote. I never said perfect. I said nice. Several times over. Nice.

MarianneUnfaithful · 23/06/2021 09:35

OP, sometimes some earthy common sense matter of fact-ness takes the heat out of it.

You have let her into your sense of guilt, with the possible effect of putting her in role as ‘victim’.

‘Look, I did smack you a few times, as have generations of parents and now. Not ideal but it doesn’t give you the right to do whatever you like in this family from now on. You are loved unconditionally and respected in this family, and are still a young person. We all agree to behave decently with each other and that includes you. Whether you like it or not it is our job to keep you safe and healthy, and our right to expect you to behave. And that’s that.”

Thirtyrock39 · 23/06/2021 09:39

Not rtft (!!) but I can sympathise op
When mine were younger and hard work I did lose my temper and occasionally smack - it's a hard thing to admit but I don't think it is that unusual and I don't think it caused any psychological trauma but my oldest has used it against me in teenage arguments. I do tell her that I regret smacking and that physical punishment is never the answer but that people make mistakes and it's in the past and I think other than that she's had a pretty good childhood. We are only human and parents get it wrong

SingingInTheShithouse · 23/06/2021 09:52

Apologies for the miss quote

My teen is nice too, in fact she's pretty damned wonderful. She's also very troubled & lashing out at the person she feels safest with. Me, so like the OPs DD is anything up nice to me a lot of the time.

I'm just trying to say that nobody can judge on their own circumstances, especially when based on not living with this situation. It really isn't as straightforward as actual abuse, but can be catastrophic thinking in a recent, so they magnify everything to themselves. Teens tend to overdramatise any