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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD 13 has decided I'm an abuser and wants to cut me off

146 replies

euromum · 22/06/2021 14:45

Really struggling to know what to do here. Dd and I have often rubbed each other up the wrong way - we can both be argumentative and stubborn and 'normal' disagreements over behaviour and house rules (politeness, no phones after 9pm, lying, that kind of thing) have escalated to shouting much more often than I would have liked. I bear the responsibility for this - I know it's my job as a parent to keep a lid on emotions and model good conflict management, but due to considerable mental health issues when she was younger I didn't manage it. On a few occasions - which I now HUGELY regret and did at the time too - I smacked her. I KNOW this is really, really unforgivable. I've done a lot of therapy to deal with my issues, which are all around my own childhood and I'm well aware are basically triggered by so much of my daughter's behaviour, whatever she is doing. I.e. it's not her fault in any way, it's how the interactions make me feel that's been the problem. But in recent years while we have still argued, I have not smacked her for a very long time and consider that something incredibly wrong and a very sad part of our past. I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

The difficulty now is that, at almost 14, for the past couple of years she has of course wanted to argue the point over everything - why we should let her go out at night with no information about where and who with, why we are the worst parents in the world basically. I find it really difficult not to get sucked into it, and as we're both debaters by nature there have been arguments. But not shouting at a level that could be called "violent" or uncontrolled. It's not helped by the fact that my husband hates conflict to an extent that he shuts down as soon as someone expresses a difference of opinion, so my speaking contrasts with his silence. Dd has now decided that I am always shouting at her, and that I always did throughout her early years and childhood. And that I hit her in anger frequently. This is such a misrepresentation it makes me want to weep with frustration. We (me and her, and the whole family including her dad and younger brother) have been basically happy in a very average kind of way throughout her childhood, punctuated by these few occasions when I was unwell and unable to manage my emotions and behaviour, that understandably loom large in the memory. Of course she is upset, hurt and sad about those occasions - so am I. But she has now stopped speaking to me, refuses to look at me or stop if I accidentally get in her way. When she does speak to me it is to say what a terrible human being I am and how there is never any excuse for shouting and violence towards a child. She says there is no way to repair things, I had my chance to be a good mother and I failed. She claims to be terrified of me, despite how much better our relationship has been in recent years. It has just taken a nosedive over the last few months and she says this is why, but I don't know what triggered it.

I just don't know what to do. She has a history of lying to the extent that we don't know if she even believes what really happened over what she says happened (several occasions when we have been there and seen various incidents, she has made us doubt what we actually saw). This has usually been to take any guilt and responsibility off herself so that she is the innocent victim. We've seen a family therapist to try to help her with this feeling of victimhood as we don't know where it came from and it seems to be so much bigger than 'normal' jealousy over her younger sibling. Now I just don't know if she's right and I was abusive. Or whether that's a manipulation and twisting of a very sad and difficult dynamic between us that I am constantly trying to repair, and have been for years. I know I need to atone for my behaviour somehow, I just don't know how. At the same time, I'm still her parent and at almost 14, living under the roof of her parents who are just trying to do their best for her, surely she doesn't get to just cut me out of her life completely?

If anyone has any idea what to do, I really would appreciate some help. I'm expecting to be flamed for the shouting and smacking when she was younger. I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow. While taking her as seriously as she needs - but I just don't know if she's exaggerating for effect or if it really is that bad. Please help :-(

OP posts:
Hawkins001 · 22/06/2021 20:18

Not sure what to advise, however all the best op

Newgirls · 22/06/2021 20:19

@SirenSays

Just curious, for those saying we're Pearl clutching.. When a woman comes on here and posts about her DH who is bigger, older than her and should know better but he hits her and shouts at her. Do you tell her she deserves it? Do you call her a drama queen? Do you tell her it's just a few smacks? No, I bet you tell her to LTB.
Exactly.

If you hit kids you teach them to hit adults. Where do people think that violent men come from?

shetlandponies · 22/06/2021 20:28

"Sorry but she sounds like a typical teenage drama lama. I was smacked plenty of times as a child and I can safely say that I deserved it. And I am not traumatised"

Agree with this. Teenagers can be such melodramatic, manipulative twats and I was one. now I've got a teen girl who sometimes seems to enjoy making me feel shit, I could cry for how I treated my mum. As I did the same to her. No wonder I got a clip round the ear occasionally

You're not an abuser op 💐 . I hope you can all get through this as a family

shetlandponies · 22/06/2021 20:34

@VodkaSlimline

Jesus Christ the self-righteous smug pearl-clutching on this thread! Gold stars and cookies to all you perfect parents who wouldn't smack your kids but are so quick to kick the OP when she's at the end of her rope with a bratty, rude, aggressive drama queen bully 13 yo DD and a useless wet blanket of a DH. Hope you all feel better after chipping in.

OP, your DD has found your weak point and is putting pressure on it, as teenage girls (and other torturers) do. Don't let her use a few smacks against you forever.

👏
sadperson16 · 22/06/2021 20:37

I was physically abused by my mother.
Despite my very best efforts, I smacked my child.
It was wrong.
It is wrong.
The OP says its wrong.
Nobody says its a great idea.

zaffa · 22/06/2021 20:39

[quote roobicoobi]@Zanzibar55

Only in today's society and especially on Mumsnet, smacking is the crime of the century. It never used to be and was normal in my day. (I'm late sixties). If it caused mental health problems, there ought to be a whole generation of fifty and sixty somethings with massive issues.

So you are suggesting smacking is ok if it doesn't lead to mental health issues in later life?

What about the hurt to the child at the time? Or do children not matter?[/quote]
I think it's more interesting that smacking your children a few times seems to be ok yet the first time your partner smacks you, you should leave the abusive bastard (and for what it's worth, you really should leave if he smacks you, even once). I don't see how we are teaching children what sort of behaviour to reject as adults if we also teach them that smacking can be dismissed with an explanation of 'mummy was frustrated' as children. How does that work?

Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow · 22/06/2021 20:47

She's playing you like a fiddle!!

All the people berating the op....how many if you have teenage children?

Mugsen · 22/06/2021 21:32

I have a teenage dd. We don't argue with her. We "exhibit calm behaviour" (switch off) when she's having a rant. Spell out the consequences of her proposed actions. And wait. If she upsets me, I tell her. But we don't particularly "parent". She's old enough to start making choices. She could legally get a job and leave home in a few months. Yet hasn't sat gcses yet and can't buy scissors. It's a strange cross over time. What's done is done. I would honestly leave her to her own devices and see what happens. If there is anything very difficult or contentious to deal with, ask your dh to step up and handle it. Take a step back and try and be kind to yourself for a bit.

mistermagpie · 22/06/2021 21:51

@FudgeSundae

So, this is a bit chilling for me to read. I moved out to live with my lovely boyfriend (now husband) age 17 because home was so miserable. Looking back, I’m still not sure what went wrong. My parents weren’t getting on well (it later transpired my dad was having an affair) and it felt like I was walking on eggshells. It would be dinner time and I’d be sitting in my room clenching my hands tightly, vowing not to say ANYTHING so that no one could start an argument. But there was an argument every night, mostly between me and my dad. Home became this place of stress and I didn’t feel emotionally safe, and I withdrew more, which caused more arguments. I tried to talk to my parents but I didn’t have the words to express myself well and when I tried my parents would say “where did you pick up that psychobabble?”

I’m not saying I wasn’t a cocky irritating little shit - I probably was, many teenagers are. But what i am saying is that I got stuck in this horrible cycle and I didn’t know how to get out of it, so I left. Thank god I had my boyfriend /husband to run to in a safe way, and not some manipulative abuser.

It’s not all bad, I made my peace with both my parents. I never stopped talking to them. It was a bit rocky at first but by the time I was 20 it was a functional relationship.

I don’t know your daughter, and I don’t know your situation. But I do know this: you are the parent and it is your job to make your child feel safe. She should feel like she can exist without you shouting at her. You don’t have to agree with everything. But you do have to keep calm because you are the adult. Otherwise you will drive her away sooner or later - and she might not come Bach.

This is very similar to my experience, except I ran away to university 200 miles away and never came back. And we never fixed things. Even as an adult I felt that 'eggshells' things and would never be alone with my parents because if I was then then sniping and arguments started. And this wasn't teenaged acting out or something, I was in my 30s!

There was smacking and a lot of shouting and horrible things said by my mother while my dad stood and watched. And he hit me occasionally. They weren't monsters who kept me in a cellar but they weren't loving and kind to me. I don't love them and they don't love me.

So my point to the OP is that if you don't fix this relationship before she is old enough to move out, she might just do that and never really come back. Things are easier to fix now. That moment has passed for my family and it's been years, there will be no reconciliation. You still have time to rebuild things.

roobicoobi · 22/06/2021 22:01

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow

She's playing you like a fiddle!!

All the people berating the op....how many if you have teenage children?

I have 2. I have never abused them. Ever.

They have never acted like OP DD either. Possibly as a result of the way I treated them when they were younger. There was no anger or smacking. I don't shout, I mean of course I have on occasion, but it is not my standard approach and I would usually apologise for shouting whilst discussing the altercation with my DC.

They have grown up to be great people. Never given me any bother. Mumsnet doesn't like to hear about nice teenagers though.

Micemakingclothes · 22/06/2021 22:18

I’m really confused. Why are people saying this was ok. Is it just because she didn’t hit her hard enough to mark her face so the school didn’t notice?

NakedNugget · 22/06/2021 22:52

@FamBae

I agree with pp stop apologising, she has found your Achilles Heel and is milking it for all it's worth, and agree that your dh needs to step up and back you up.
This. Put your foot down and tell her enough is enough. She tows the line and shows respect or there will be consequences.

You might find that she's actually relieved when you become more authoritative and place boundaries on her.

I was also thinking her behaviour is narcissistic however it probably is just a teenage girl milking you for everything she can.

You're not a shit mum at all, I also lost my shit and shouted at my dd when she was young and I seriously regret it too. We all make mistakes.

CallMeNutribullet · 22/06/2021 23:03

The thing is op, people can be abusive while not meaning to be and while still loving their kids.

I'm sure people would have rolled their eyes at the suggestion my mum was abusive. She loved us, would have done anything for us but was hyper critical, especially of me. She also couldn't see it - said I had a victim complex. It has left me with lifelong problems.

I think you need to accept that actually you did abuse your daughter and perhaps still do. She may be manipulative and she may lie, but at 13 she does that for a reason and the reason is almost certainly linked to how she was parented.

sadperson16 · 23/06/2021 07:22

@Micemakingclothes, please point me in the direction of anybody who says it is OK to systematically abuse children physically?
Marks on faces?
Rubbish.

The OP got it wrong, I got it wrong. It happens. We are a product of our own crappy upbringing, add to that MH issues and 14 hour days with young children....mistakes happen.

spotcheck · 23/06/2021 07:27

@Iggi999

The fact that you seek to be the sole disciplinarian won't be helping. If you dh would step up and allow you to be the "nice parent" more often that would help.
This

Your DH needs to step up

Sweetpeasaremadeofcheese · 23/06/2021 07:35

Exactly what @FamBae said. I remember desperately trying to get one up on my parents at that age, and you continuously apologising is giving her fuel and direction for her over the top pubescent emotions

Bluntness100 · 23/06/2021 07:38

Nope I am not with the majority blaming th child and absolving you op

You did abuse her, you hit her and you shouted at her when she was small. She has no need to forgiv you and if she’s making your life uncomfortable then that’s your fault.

sadperson16 · 23/06/2021 07:54

What a lot of absolutely perfect parents there must be here.

People who never , ever, shouted at a child ( at the end of 14 hours alone and at the end of their tether)

Some poor poor children suffer the most vile, premeditiated abuse or the slow drip of constant belittleing day after day.Neglect, sexual abuse,manipulation, favouritism...it goes on day after day behind closed doors.

Shouting and the odd smack is not in the same league at all.

itsgettingwierd · 23/06/2021 08:03

Sounds like role reversal.

You've suffered with your MH and as a result have produced actions you are proud of. I doubt anyone (even the perfects Peters on here) can claim to have never made a mistake.

You are now turning that anger on yourself and abating yourself for your last actions. And your dd is also doing this too.

You and DH are allowing that.

Tell her she is 13yo. These are the rules.

If she wants to make the choice to break them or doesn't want to engage with you that's her choice and she has to manage the consequences. Which I'd make loss of phone time and also if she doesn't want to engage with you she won't get treats from supermarkets, lifts, reminded to out her washing in family basket etc.

Newgirls · 23/06/2021 08:04

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow

She's playing you like a fiddle!!

All the people berating the op....how many if you have teenage children?

Yes teenage girls.

I was hit. Shouted at. I decided to be different and got when mine were young. Not a perfect parent - but lazy could cook more. But there is loads of help/books/advice out there on how to relate to kids.

I know people with very ‘challenging’ kids with needs and they don’t hit or shout. If they can manage surely most can.

Newgirls · 23/06/2021 08:05

Got help

Sorry wish could edit posts!

sadperson16 · 23/06/2021 08:16

The OP doesn't need books or advice. Her actions are in the past.
She messed up.

How to move on?
The same way we all do if we get something wrong, apologise and try to change our behaviour.
The teenager is playing you. If it wasn't this , it would be something else

Bythemillpond · 23/06/2021 08:21

The issue is that you are still angry and shout at her. The only thing that has changed is that you no longer hit her, probably because she could hit you back

Just because you don’t now hit her doesn’t mean all is forgiven and you can all move on. Those outbursts leave a lasting impression and the scars never leave.
Especially if you are still shouting.

I think there is a difference between being smacked as a child because you did something naughty from parents who thought that was the way to teach a child and being smacked by a mentally unwell parent who is screaming and out of control

I spent my childhood being screamed at for anything and everything
When I finally left my mother couldn’t understand why I was being so cruel to her.

The truth is I lost all my love for my mother who also had mental health problems, when I was 8 years old and she had been screaming at me all day. It was like a switch going off.
I only remained in the same house as her because I had nowhere to go.

Unless you can put yourself in your dds shoes as a small child and really think of what your words and actions would look like from her point of view then you cannot begin to see the harm you have caused and are still causing whilst trying to play the victim

Newgirls · 23/06/2021 08:29

@sadperson16

The OP doesn't need books or advice. Her actions are in the past. She messed up.

How to move on?
The same way we all do if we get something wrong, apologise and try to change our behaviour.
The teenager is playing you. If it wasn't this , it would be something else

She came on here to ask for help.
Bythemillpond · 23/06/2021 08:29

And yes I have now adult teenagers who were allowed to do pretty much anything they wanted within a very loose framework

Their peers parents would detail all their rules and regulations and then Dd or Ds would come home with updates from nights out and sleep overs about what these children were really up to as they just went ahead and did the exact opposite of what their parents rules were.

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