Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD 13 has decided I'm an abuser and wants to cut me off

146 replies

euromum · 22/06/2021 14:45

Really struggling to know what to do here. Dd and I have often rubbed each other up the wrong way - we can both be argumentative and stubborn and 'normal' disagreements over behaviour and house rules (politeness, no phones after 9pm, lying, that kind of thing) have escalated to shouting much more often than I would have liked. I bear the responsibility for this - I know it's my job as a parent to keep a lid on emotions and model good conflict management, but due to considerable mental health issues when she was younger I didn't manage it. On a few occasions - which I now HUGELY regret and did at the time too - I smacked her. I KNOW this is really, really unforgivable. I've done a lot of therapy to deal with my issues, which are all around my own childhood and I'm well aware are basically triggered by so much of my daughter's behaviour, whatever she is doing. I.e. it's not her fault in any way, it's how the interactions make me feel that's been the problem. But in recent years while we have still argued, I have not smacked her for a very long time and consider that something incredibly wrong and a very sad part of our past. I've apologised many times and tried to listen to her, empathise, demonstrate with kindness (rather than explanations) that "angry mummy" was not me but a symptom of difficulties nothing to do with her that I want to help us both get past.

The difficulty now is that, at almost 14, for the past couple of years she has of course wanted to argue the point over everything - why we should let her go out at night with no information about where and who with, why we are the worst parents in the world basically. I find it really difficult not to get sucked into it, and as we're both debaters by nature there have been arguments. But not shouting at a level that could be called "violent" or uncontrolled. It's not helped by the fact that my husband hates conflict to an extent that he shuts down as soon as someone expresses a difference of opinion, so my speaking contrasts with his silence. Dd has now decided that I am always shouting at her, and that I always did throughout her early years and childhood. And that I hit her in anger frequently. This is such a misrepresentation it makes me want to weep with frustration. We (me and her, and the whole family including her dad and younger brother) have been basically happy in a very average kind of way throughout her childhood, punctuated by these few occasions when I was unwell and unable to manage my emotions and behaviour, that understandably loom large in the memory. Of course she is upset, hurt and sad about those occasions - so am I. But she has now stopped speaking to me, refuses to look at me or stop if I accidentally get in her way. When she does speak to me it is to say what a terrible human being I am and how there is never any excuse for shouting and violence towards a child. She says there is no way to repair things, I had my chance to be a good mother and I failed. She claims to be terrified of me, despite how much better our relationship has been in recent years. It has just taken a nosedive over the last few months and she says this is why, but I don't know what triggered it.

I just don't know what to do. She has a history of lying to the extent that we don't know if she even believes what really happened over what she says happened (several occasions when we have been there and seen various incidents, she has made us doubt what we actually saw). This has usually been to take any guilt and responsibility off herself so that she is the innocent victim. We've seen a family therapist to try to help her with this feeling of victimhood as we don't know where it came from and it seems to be so much bigger than 'normal' jealousy over her younger sibling. Now I just don't know if she's right and I was abusive. Or whether that's a manipulation and twisting of a very sad and difficult dynamic between us that I am constantly trying to repair, and have been for years. I know I need to atone for my behaviour somehow, I just don't know how. At the same time, I'm still her parent and at almost 14, living under the roof of her parents who are just trying to do their best for her, surely she doesn't get to just cut me out of her life completely?

If anyone has any idea what to do, I really would appreciate some help. I'm expecting to be flamed for the shouting and smacking when she was younger. I can't say or do anything about that now, I just want to do whatever I can to heal our relationship somehow. While taking her as seriously as she needs - but I just don't know if she's exaggerating for effect or if it really is that bad. Please help :-(

OP posts:
Holly60 · 22/06/2021 18:23

I’m afraid that essentially it doesn’t matter how you interpret your relationship now or what happened in the past, it’s how your DD interprets it. If she feels traumatised by it, then she feels traumatised by it. It doesn’t matter how ‘controlled’ the shouting is, or how sorry you are that you shouted and smacked when she was younger, it doesn’t change the impact it has had on her. She needs therapy, and you could also look at relationship counselling like Relate. It might show that you are genuinely sorry, that you take her feelings seriously, and that you want to change. Don’t leave it, you will end up NC

Pixxie7 · 22/06/2021 18:30

I feel sorry for parents these days children have to learn that certain behaviours have consequences, if they are going to fit in society as adults. Although I am strongly against any form of physical punishment, I would like to meet a parents who never shouts at their children. Give yourself a break, perhaps try and have some mother and daughter days and try and sit down calmly turn the tables and ask her how she suggests you should challenge bad behaviour.

roobicoobi · 22/06/2021 18:40

@Zanzibar55

Only in today's society and especially on Mumsnet, smacking is the crime of the century. It never used to be and was normal in my day. (I'm late sixties). If it caused mental health problems, there ought to be a whole generation of fifty and sixty somethings with massive issues.

So you are suggesting smacking is ok if it doesn't lead to mental health issues in later life?

What about the hurt to the child at the time? Or do children not matter?

Babymamamama · 22/06/2021 18:43

What is your husband doing? Why didn’t he intervene and protect your daughter when you were hitting and shouting at her? Why do you think your behaviour towards your daughter was a symptom of your mental health? Did you hit your husband and your other child too? If not I suspect it wasn’t. Your daughter has experienced trauma at your hands. Maybe she feels insecure it won’t happen again. Your bond with your daughter has been impacted by this. Sorry but your husband needs to do more. Your poor daughter.

sadperson16 · 22/06/2021 18:44

Smacking is wrong and smacking may lead to poor MH in the future.

MAY

Betty000 · 22/06/2021 18:47

She would not be talking like this if she was truly terrified of you at age 13. Call her bluff and ask if she feels going to a foster family would be a better environment for her

UserAtRandom · 22/06/2021 18:48

I suspect the truth lies somewhere between the 2 viewpoints expressed.

There is a scale of "abuse" and just because you don't regularly beat your DD unconscious does not mean you are not abusive. Equally, you clearly recognise your past poor behaviour and are seeking to change it, so you are not the heartless soul that your DD might believe.

I believe my parents were abusive to me as a child. This was and always has been minimised because they "only" shouted at me and smacked me (apparently only when I deserved it and I always forgave them afterwards). Contrary to the assertions on this thread, it has left me with lifelong impacts that I'm still trying to overcome. You wouldn't know this because I don't advertise them except to a very small number of those very close to me. I expect there are many others like me who are hiding childhood situations that may or may not have been abuse but had an impact.

However, I also believed my parents loved me, cared for me and believed they were doing the best for me. They would vehemently deny their behaviour was in any way abusive (normally by pointing out that my mother's friend's husband used to beat his children with any implement that came to hand and clearly they weren't doing that, therefore they were ok).

Like I said, the truth is probably somewhere between OP and her DD's account. "Abuse" is a word that means different things to different people. OP (and her DD) need to look at their behaviours and how to move on from them.

roobicoobi · 22/06/2021 18:48

@Betty000

She would not be talking like this if she was truly terrified of you at age 13. Call her bluff and ask if she feels going to a foster family would be a better environment for her

Don't do this Sad

Mamanyt · 22/06/2021 18:54

@CoronaBanana

I think you need to stop apologising to her. You shouted and smacked her on occasion when she was younger which obviously is not the best but you've said sorry. It's time to move on. It sounds like she's taking your guilt and using that to manipulate you.

She's still very young and you still need to parent her. Don't be afraid to give her boundaries/discipline her (even if she does bring up the smacking). She doesn't get to behave how she likes just because you made a few mistakes when she was younger.

Can you maybe speak to someone about getting therapy for both of you, so you can talk it through together and move on from the past?

You just saved me a world of typing.

I would only add, not only should both of you see someone together, DD should see someone on her own to help her work through this.

Gazelda · 22/06/2021 18:56

@Betty000

She would not be talking like this if she was truly terrified of you at age 13. Call her bluff and ask if she feels going to a foster family would be a better environment for her
Oh God, what a fabulous way to screw the poor girl up! OP quite clearly loves her DD unconditionally, so I don't think she'd do this for a minute. OP's DH has an awful lot of blame to shoulder here. He needs to be part of the move towards resolution.
Franklyfrost · 22/06/2021 18:56

I had a shouty parent who regularly smacked me. The thing to do now is stop shouting. It is much more frightening for those around you than you realise, especially for a teenager who has cast themselves in a victim role. You don’t say how often you hit your child or how prolonged and significant your periods of ill health were so it’s difficult to judge how much your child suffered. But stopping shouting is the thing to do, if you can.

SirenSays · 22/06/2021 19:23

I think you should read the study linked and realise the actual impact you've had on your daughter. She is a child and a victim of your abuse, both verbal and physical, you don't get to decide when she must draw a line under it and move on.

You also don't have to be shaking in a corner to feel terrified of your abuser or for it to count as abuse. There were many things I felt towards my abuser - rage, hatred, disgust..

I suggest supporting her and finding her the help she needs and hopefully she won't continue this cycle with her own children, should she choose to have any. I'm not surprised that she thinks lying is OK when you apologise for being abusive but then continue to verbally abuse her. You must try to stop shouting at her if you want to repair your relationship, otherwise maybe she is right and going nc would be the best thing for her.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/smacking-children-brain-development-study-b1831231.html%3famp

MerryDecembermas · 22/06/2021 19:37

What were your teen years like, OP? What do you wish your mother had done differently? Do you remember any of it?

ThreeLocusts · 22/06/2021 19:37

@PlanDeRaccordement

OP said 'on a few occasions', you translated that into 'multiple times'. Subtle difference.

I don't think that from the way OP describes the past readers here on MN can at all be sure that she was abusive, and I'd recommend being less judgmental. That said, it is possible that the emotional impact of the shouting and smacking on DD was so devastating as to justify her calling it abuse. It is equally possible that DD has realized her mother is wracked with guilt and is twisting the knife. No way of knowing without being much more familiar with the situation than we are. And it may be difficult to decide even if you did know the situation very well.

OP I'm sorry this is happening. I have a difficult relationship with my oldest daughter too, and I keep coming back to the thought that above all she needs me to be reasonably content. I think she is angry at me because I'm not good enough at modeling 'happy female grownup-ness', iykwim. She is wary of growing up into someone with my level of stress. Could it be that something like that is at play for your daughter too?

As others have said, your husband needs to step up (easier said than done, obvs).

I'd try focusing on staying calm, not showing hurt, ignoring as much drama as possible and plodding on with everyday parenting. You having yelled at her gives her no entitlement to go out without giving an account of her plans; the two things are unrelated - which also means you still have the right to set boundaries for her, even while owning past mistakes.

So as others have said, repeat apologies probably don't help - better to take some very deep breaths and muddle on as calmly as you can. Also I'd offer her therapy, for herself or involving you/others in the family, of whatever kind she prefers. How she responds to that may help you gauge whether there is trauma that she is struggling to move on from (in which case she'd presumably accept some help) or whether she is cultivating a hurt persona as part of a teenage power struggle. Could be bit of both too, of course.

Wishing you all the best.

Flowers500 · 22/06/2021 19:39

@Betty000

She would not be talking like this if she was truly terrified of you at age 13. Call her bluff and ask if she feels going to a foster family would be a better environment for her
I really, sincerely hope you are not responsible for any children. That is utterly reprehensible.
FudgeSundae · 22/06/2021 19:40

So, this is a bit chilling for me to read. I moved out to live with my lovely boyfriend (now husband) age 17 because home was so miserable. Looking back, I’m still not sure what went wrong. My parents weren’t getting on well (it later transpired my dad was having an affair) and it felt like I was walking on eggshells. It would be dinner time and I’d be sitting in my room clenching my hands tightly, vowing not to say ANYTHING so that no one could start an argument. But there was an argument every night, mostly between me and my dad. Home became this place of stress and I didn’t feel emotionally safe, and I withdrew more, which caused more arguments. I tried to talk to my parents but I didn’t have the words to express myself well and when I tried my parents would say “where did you pick up that psychobabble?”

I’m not saying I wasn’t a cocky irritating little shit - I probably was, many teenagers are. But what i am saying is that I got stuck in this horrible cycle and I didn’t know how to get out of it, so I left. Thank god I had my boyfriend /husband to run to in a safe way, and not some manipulative abuser.

It’s not all bad, I made my peace with both my parents. I never stopped talking to them. It was a bit rocky at first but by the time I was 20 it was a functional relationship.

I don’t know your daughter, and I don’t know your situation. But I do know this: you are the parent and it is your job to make your child feel safe. She should feel like she can exist without you shouting at her. You don’t have to agree with everything. But you do have to keep calm because you are the adult. Otherwise you will drive her away sooner or later - and she might not come Bach.

FudgeSundae · 22/06/2021 19:40

Back not bach!

chaosrabbitland · 22/06/2021 19:47

@Zanzibar55

Stop apologizing to your daughter. She is hormonal with puberty and testing the boundaries. Try explaining that no contact will involve no food being prepared, no washing done, no internet as you pay the bills. Oh, and you are not an abusive parent. Only in today's society and especially on Mumsnet, smacking is the crime of the century. It never used to be and was normal in my day. (I'm late sixties). If it caused mental health problems, there ought to be a whole generation of fifty and sixty somethings with massive issues. That is clearly not the case. Before someone sends me links 'proving' that smacking causes all sorts of problems, the studies done are talking about severe and continued corporal punishment, not the occasional smack for bad behaviour. My own two children were smacked when young, and they are now well adjusted, resilient and successful women with families of their own.
so agree with this , i was smacked if i crossed the line badly and no i didnt feel abused , my mother was and still is warm ,loving and supportive , i respected her , maybe if parents brought their children up a bit more like you and she did, we actually wouldnt have all these that talk to their parents like shit and every other authority figure , at my 12 year olds school there are more than a few that think nothing of verbally abusing the teachers and if they are reprimanded the parents back them up as victims
Micemakingclothes · 22/06/2021 19:50

There is no apology that every makes up for abusing your child. I know my father was mentally ill. As much as I pity him, he was still responsible for his actions.

What should have happened is that your DH should have taken the kids and left. If you addressed your mental health issues, then you could work your way back into their lives
He didn’t do that.

What should be happening today is that he should be in charge of these interactions with your child. It’s not fair to her to have to deal with her abuser like this even if you feel like it’s something in the past. If you can’t deal with her completely calmly, you need to walk away.

Micemakingclothes · 22/06/2021 19:53

Oh and I’m middle aged. I’ve lived away from my parents for longer than I ever lived with them. There is no moving past it. You can set it to the side, but it is always there.

VodkaSlimline · 22/06/2021 20:06

Jesus Christ the self-righteous smug pearl-clutching on this thread! Gold stars and cookies to all you perfect parents who wouldn't smack your kids but are so quick to kick the OP when she's at the end of her rope with a bratty, rude, aggressive drama queen bully 13 yo DD and a useless wet blanket of a DH. Hope you all feel better after chipping in.

OP, your DD has found your weak point and is putting pressure on it, as teenage girls (and other torturers) do. Don't let her use a few smacks against you forever.

sadperson16 · 22/06/2021 20:07

Dont dump your stuff on the OP.

Unlike your experience, she has self knowledge, she has sought help, she wishes to change.
There is a world of difference

Newgirls · 22/06/2021 20:07

@FudgeSundae

So, this is a bit chilling for me to read. I moved out to live with my lovely boyfriend (now husband) age 17 because home was so miserable. Looking back, I’m still not sure what went wrong. My parents weren’t getting on well (it later transpired my dad was having an affair) and it felt like I was walking on eggshells. It would be dinner time and I’d be sitting in my room clenching my hands tightly, vowing not to say ANYTHING so that no one could start an argument. But there was an argument every night, mostly between me and my dad. Home became this place of stress and I didn’t feel emotionally safe, and I withdrew more, which caused more arguments. I tried to talk to my parents but I didn’t have the words to express myself well and when I tried my parents would say “where did you pick up that psychobabble?”

I’m not saying I wasn’t a cocky irritating little shit - I probably was, many teenagers are. But what i am saying is that I got stuck in this horrible cycle and I didn’t know how to get out of it, so I left. Thank god I had my boyfriend /husband to run to in a safe way, and not some manipulative abuser.

It’s not all bad, I made my peace with both my parents. I never stopped talking to them. It was a bit rocky at first but by the time I was 20 it was a functional relationship.

I don’t know your daughter, and I don’t know your situation. But I do know this: you are the parent and it is your job to make your child feel safe. She should feel like she can exist without you shouting at her. You don’t have to agree with everything. But you do have to keep calm because you are the adult. Otherwise you will drive her away sooner or later - and she might not come Bach.

A very wise post

I don’t think we can know the damage it does - we adjust our behaviours around it. It becomes ‘normalised’ and people do it to their own children.

It’s great that the op wants to do things differently

Newgirls · 22/06/2021 20:10

@VodkaSlimline

Jesus Christ the self-righteous smug pearl-clutching on this thread! Gold stars and cookies to all you perfect parents who wouldn't smack your kids but are so quick to kick the OP when she's at the end of her rope with a bratty, rude, aggressive drama queen bully 13 yo DD and a useless wet blanket of a DH. Hope you all feel better after chipping in.

OP, your DD has found your weak point and is putting pressure on it, as teenage girls (and other torturers) do. Don't let her use a few smacks against you forever.

Wow - you don’t know this 13 year old and that is a nasty post. Also misogynistic ‘drama queen’?! Do you like young people?!
SirenSays · 22/06/2021 20:15

Just curious, for those saying we're Pearl clutching.. When a woman comes on here and posts about her DH who is bigger, older than her and should know better but he hits her and shouts at her. Do you tell her she deserves it? Do you call her a drama queen? Do you tell her it's just a few smacks? No, I bet you tell her to LTB.