So what is your theory behind the epidemic of teenage mental health issues

[AvacadoRush]

I think I now have more friends whose teenagers have mental health issues (anxiety and depression - one of my teens included) than don't. All lovely, caring, supportive parents.

So what's going on? Is it simply an increase in recognition and diagnosis, usual teenage angst being labelled? Is it a failing in parenting by our generation?

My own theory is that much of it (if not the vast bulk of it) can be put down to the internet. From the age of 11yrs - as they go to secondary school - they have smartphones which (much as we try to police it - it's like trying to stop an avalanche with an egg cup) mean then have virtually unfettered access to, well, everything. All stuff that they are completely and utterly, with brains that are not even fully developed, able to cope with.

My friend put it like this (extreme example) he said if I walked up to a group of friends and said 'I really want to stab someone' - they'd all say 'don't be crazy', explain why it was wrong etc. Type that into the internet and you will find other like-minded people. Obviously that's the nasty side of things along with porn, grooming by gangs/paedophiles etc,

On the other side is the make-up tutorials, the bloggers, vloggers, the life-styles the impossibly unrealistic standards our dc will never reach. Death by bloody comparison. Even with the awareness that half this stuff is staged and bullshit there's still that creeping sense of failure. Even as an adult, scrolling through Facebook, you can feel it.

I don't think anything I've said is new or controversial.
So my last question is what the actual fuck can we do about it?

I listened to a talk by a neuropsychologist recently and she had an interesting theory. Twenty odd years ago the average age for a child to go to the local shop alone was nine, it’s now 12 apparently. She said that if children are not given appropriate lessons in assessing risk between 9 and 12 they struggle to develop the ability and potentially become very anxious as teens. She encourages parents to let children go to a local shop with conditions and possibly even secretly shadowing them helps with brain development.
Obviously not the whole story but interesting nonetheless.

I'm an oldie so probably wrong. But not having societal expectations/ standards. I wouldn't do crazy stuff as a teen as it reflected on my parents - I didn't like the thought of others criticising, looking disapproving. BTW I did do some irresponsible stuff but DM and other adults didn't know.
A bad side to that is eg single mothers disapproved of. But a good thing is boys sexually attacking you in school - never.
Being depressed or whatever could be seen as a failure of parenting or a weakness so you wouldn't do it.
I can see that how things were wasn't always good. But to have no feelings about how your behaviour might influence attitudes to other family members seems just selfish or the effect on the feelings of other family members.

I think it’s a mix of...

• social media/internet access for the reasons you describe plus the way it can replace direct human interaction without the same rewarding connection.

• high focus on quantifiable assessment results in education, along with lack of jobs (I think they know they’re being pressured through exams designed for a job market that no longer exists; it must feel stressful and futile).

*not enough time outdoors - disconnect from nature, growing food and physical activity

*things that best nourish well-being are culturally devalued

*constant comparison with others/cult of individualism rather than collaboration

*consumerism and constant exposure to advertising designed to promote dissatisfaction with what e we have

@Chosennone

*Todaytomorrowyesterday* That is awful and must have been heartbreaking as a mother. Young people certainly can be vile to each other.

They will all parrot #bekind and vocalise empathy for Caroline Flack, Jessy from little Mix etc and then non connect their own bitchy and isolating behaviour.

Yes! I’d rather they’d just be honest with her she could have moved on when she was 14. Not the constant but we are friends.....pull her back in and repeat the behaviour . To the point she was isolated and without them felt she had no one!!

She had a moment at the start of y13 where she had the strength to walk away and would rather be alone in college than with them. Its the leavers day today and its hard to see people putting photos up and making plans with a group of friends - she doesn’t have that. But she found a girl with similar issues around friendship groups and they at least had each other during the school day!
We just hoping uni brings her new friends and a fresh new start!

This. I am finding this thread fascinating as it is something I have wondered for years. When I was young I never knew anyone who had tried to commit suicide, let alone succeeded. My DC all know at least one person who has succeeded. It is tragic but the main question is why??

There is another theory about why suicide is on the rise so badly. Teenage angst is a well known phenomenon, but how they express that angst comes in waves of 'fashion'.

So in the 80's following one very small publication based on one case, bulimia hit the headlines - in all the girl magazines etc etc. Within 10 years there was an epidemic of bulimic girls.

The theory is there are cultural ways in which to appropriately express your teenage angst. At the moment, it seems that 'Mental Health' / Anxiety/ depression, and more worryingly self-harm and suicide are the culturally appropriate ways to express your teenage angst.

I think there is some truth in that theory - if you look back and think of all the ways in which teenagers and young people express their growing pains, they definitely have a time and place.

@CornishGem1975

I think there are two strands to it. Those who DO have mental health issues and those who like the drama. That sounds harsh, but I have had some experience of this with my own two. I do think social media has a big part to play.

Luckily by Year 10/Year 11 it calmed down but in Year 7/Year 8 the kids were absolutely obsessed with self-harming (saying they were doing it, rather than actually doing it, my own kids included), being depressed, hating their lives...posting dismal quotes on their Instagrams etc. It became an onemanupship thing. It was quite scary really but it seemed to be the 'in' thing to do at the time. The school were exasperated about it. It was like they were egging each other on.

As they've matured a little, all that has thankfully stopped and what remains is the kids with the REAL problems. I'm not sure if there are more people with mental health issues than when I was a teenager, or if they are just more widely talked about (which is never a bad thing).

This. Some love the drama. They all 'have mental health issues and many 'have' gender issues, many have attention for this sharing of their worries, issues, gender feelings....some are real. Some are exacerbated by parents, society, .

Gotta have it all and have it now, gotta be pretty, smart, funny etc etc

When I was young I never knew anyone who had tried to commit suicide, let alone succeeded.

I knew two. (One was a very depressed teen and the other the sort of manipulative sod who told his v young girlfriend he would kill himself if she left. I’ve always suspected he meant to be rescued in time.)

Teen suicide was then and is still rare, but is it actually increasing?

I think there’s another of factors.

Social media/phones have definantly contributed to the situations. Teens can’t switch off. When I was a child, your home was your sanctuary. Now you still be contacted 24/7.

Someone upthread said that any emotion other than happiness is now considered to be an issue. The teenagers aren’t being taught risk or to recognise their emotions. My eldest has dc just returned after a period at home. We warned him that he could be lonely after mixing with his family at home. By recognising that he could experience a loneliness feeling, he will know this is normal and be able to deal with it better.

I think there is also a greater recognition of anxiety and depression amongst teenagers and parents.

Social media and unlimited, instant access internet. Children are exposed to too much too soon.

Vitamin D deficiency: lack of sunshine between 11am and 3 pm as teens are indoors on screens instead of roaming around together or playing team sports at those times of day
No one gives their children cod liver oil supplements anymore and a lot of vegetarian kids are at risk of anaemia, folate d ficiency too. All contributes to anxiety and depression.

Btw, plenty of teens were depressed in the 70s and 80s...I don't think it is an entirely new phenomen...to feel suicidal and low at that age. But people were addicted to things other than screens, still addicted then though.

A generation raised on porn
Girls taught that their value is completely linked to their looks.
Raised on social media where everyone is perfect, happy, active, popular, talented - filtered, staged
No privacy
Told they should be successful constantly
Told they’re special and totally unprepared for an average life/disappointment/failure

They’re depressed because they’re ordinary and they’ve been raised to believe they’re not. They’re under endless pressure to be beautiful and successful and popular and slim
The girls are meant to be up for anything or they’re frigid
The boys are porn addled and it’s causing them huge pressure and emotional disconnection

I went to a girls school in the 90s. Everyone there had depression/anxiety/an eating disorder/was self harming. We didn’t have the Internet, so it wasn’t that! The vast majority of those girls are now perfectly mentally healthy women now too. I think teenagers have always been riddled with mental health issues.... it’s just part of the life stage. The Internet has potentially made us talk about it more openly, that’s all.

Expectations are too high

I think my generation (born in 86 with 1 8y/o DD) tell our kids they are amazing and can do anything. We validate all their emotions and make them the centre of the universe. I don't have the answers unfortunately and she's not teenage yet but I didn't want her brought up like I was (nothing bad but I felt in the way and lesser and told off when I was happy (noisy and messy probably)) it made me a wallflower and a people pleaser. I don't value my own opinions (getting better now) and always aimed low so as not to be a failure.

Kids have shown us how resilient they are over the last year but they are going to be entering their young adulthood into a period of huge uncertainty. Brexit/ global warming/ jobs crisis/ energy change up.

They all want to be you tubers/ influencers and any time they are not happy they are by default struggling with mental health

Other than watching Pixar's inside out I have no answers unfortunately

So OP posted at 8am, one post then didn't come back to engage with discussion. I wonder why [puzzled]

Or rather

OP has had a VERY long day at work. Hope that helps your confusion...

Crikey Pag that's grim!

back atcha. Nice to have you back, OP. That is a long day...

Yy, so many points I agree with on here:

Pathologising (not sure that was the word used?!) 'normal' teenage behaviour

Lack of recognition and therefore diagnosis of girls with ASD and ADHD (exactly what happened to my dd)

Lack of sunlight and outdoors

Risk aversion of parents (of course we are also exposed to the horrors of the internet and therefore become more afraid)

Teaching kids they must be extraordinary - why?! People who are EXtraordinary are the exception, outside the norm, the norm is what the vast, vast majority of us are and it's just fine!

@Needanedittbuton
A slightly tone deaf post from you. My kids had boundaries when they were young and are very loved. Didn't stop my dd having a terrible time. My friends whose dc have had issues are the same. Supportive, loving, have boundaries (my dd obviously ended up having some known conditions, theirs haven't) but I don't think their dc's problems are down to poor parenting. You are lucky if your children don't have problems, never be too smug, my dd was completely without issues until she was about 13 yrs, I do confess to being pretty pleased with myself as a parent until that point. DC had beautiful manners, were fantastic with adults and other children, academically successful, popular with classmates (well one was!) and teachers, dh and I were systematic and fair with discipline, dc had firm boundaries at home etc etc.... It was a long, difficult fall from feeling we were good parents to feeling like we didn't have a clue what was happening or how to help

Is it not possible to have one single bloody thread on MN without someone having a go at you FFS. This is literally the first time I have had to myself all day to actually get back on my iPad. I'm going to go to sleep in a minute if that's ok. Just to explain where I'm going to be for the next few hours.

I’m not sure it’s not mainly that people aren’t ashamed any more. About 10 years ago (when I was in my early 30s) my DM commented that her friends were starting to open up about how their DC had been as teens and she reckoned she was in a minority in that DSIs and I hadn’t either had eating disorders or self harmed. She was shocked because at the time she’d assumed that they, like her, had over emotional teens but nothing more serious. She thinks that they were too ashamed at the time (90s) to talk about it.

And lack of shame is good, to be clear!

A slightly tone deaf post from you

Not at all, you asked for opinions and I gave you mine based on my observations. And I'm not in the least bit smug. Nor am I complacent about problems that might arise in the future - I can only tell you about the here and now.

I do find it alarming that all your friends' teens have mental health problems.

Anyway, you sound overwrought so I hope you get a good night's sleep and your equilibrium is restored by the morning.

My 15 yo is quite severely autistic and has completely lost his shit, this year. Can't blame that on the Internet. Protracted periods of no school have done for him, though.