Was this anything other than consensual sex?

[fedupwithemployer]

Please help me with this. I keep turning it around in my head and have been unable to sleep all night. I'll keep it brief.

Boy 15
Girl 14

Boy pesters girl for sex. She says no. She is too young and wants to be in a more committed relationship. She's a virgin. Boy asks again, and again. Eventually girl has sex as she wants to stop the nagging, and doesn't want boy to break up with her. Never had a boyfriend. They've been seeing each other a month.

Boy splits up with her the next day.

Thanks.

As others have said it may hit her later on down the line when she is more aware of how a relationship should be.

Hopefully taking these steps now will enforce the knowledge that she wasn't in the wrong and it wasn't her fault which may help down the line.

I think you are doing a great job! This is one of my biggest fears as a parent of all girls including one with ASD who finds it hard to say no. If I am ever faced with this I hope I can be as calm and supportive as you.

It took me until way into my 30's to process what (many) things happened to me in my teens.

The reason why it took so long as people reacted (in the same way some are reacting here) that I was silly, leading him/them on, a slut, I should have said no, maybe I just regretted it etc etc.

It took me YEARS to realise that sex with a 28 year old when I was 15, and it hurt to hell, and I bled really badly afterwards, was actually rape. I didn't think it it was rape, because I didn't say no. I also didn't say yes. But I didn't actively fight him off either.

So for years I felt it was just sex gone wrong.

This is just one of many incidents. You stop telling people about them, when you get told it's your fault.

The rumours that follow afterwards, and the judgements that get made about you, are so much worse than the incident itself. It defines your future relationships, and it seriously fucks up your boundaries.

OP, well done. You are listening to your daughter, and taking her seriously, and so are the police. This will go a LONG way into her getting 'over' what has happened and processing it.

Love to you both

Believe me @RogueRebel I'm not always calm, but thank you for your kind words. I hope this situation is rare, and not many others find themselves in this position.

@gluteustothemaximus so sorry that happened to you. Thank you for your kind words.

@ScrollingLeaves I am definitely planning to work on her self esteem, which is at rock bottom at the moment. She's beautiful inside and out, and I tell her every day.

If this was between a husband and wife there would be outrage and cries of LTB and talk of abuse and rape. Only on Mumsnet could we hold 13 year old girls to a higher standard than married woman

But there is also outrage on this thread. Those posters with a balanced view on this situation are likely to have the same view as if this related to a married woman. And the outraged would be equally as outraged.

This thread is just so sad not only because of what happened to OP’s DD, but all the other posters here who were also abused/raped/coerced but somehow felt for years that they had consented by not saying no strongly o enough.

I never forgot reading an interview with Helen Mirren and was able to find it tonight as It is apt:

“In an interview with Mail on Sunday Event magazine, the 67-year-old Oscar-winning actress gives a candid account of how women were mistreated in the entertainment industry and how disgraced Jimmy Savile ‘could get away with anything’ during his time at the BBC.

She says: ‘If I’d had children and had a girl, the first words I would have taught her would have been “f* off” because we weren’t brought up ever to say that to anyone, were we?

‘And it’s quite valuable to have the courage and the confidence to say, “No, f* off, leave me alone, thank you very much.”

'You see, I couldn’t help saying “Thank you very much”, I just couldn’t help myself.’

Please, OP, don’t think this is to imply your DD should have been able to do more to stop this so it was her fault.

All the sensitivity and empathy girls have sets them up for manipulation and coercion.

@ScrollingLeaves very wise words from Helen Mirren.

We've gone downhill again today. DD refusing school. She's got a very upset stomach, headache etc. I'm thinking it's a physical manifestation of the stress she's under.

Thanks everyone.

Poor thing.
I am so sorry. This must all be extremely stressful for her and I am sure you are right.

I was reading a bjm article about anal sex posted on another thread. One section describes the coercion of girls/women that can be involved in this practice.

The relevance here is shown by this excerpt from what one interviewed man said - openly describing rape without, presumably, considering it to be rape.

“Some men also described taking a ‘try it and see’ approach, where they anally penetrated a woman with their fingers or penis and hoped that she would not stop them.

Shane told us if a woman said ‘no’ when he started “putting [his] finger in”, he might keep trying: “I can be very persuasive […]. Like sometimes you just keep going, just keep going till they just get fed up and let you do it anyway”.

When this sort of thinking is normal, no wonder your DD is confused.

Omg that thinking is NOT normal though is it?! That's the thinking of some fucked up men!
Why are you victimising anyone here, this is about 2 young teenagers not a grown man and woman.
The girl gave consent to the boy and then regretted it when he dumped her after.
It's a tale as old as time itself. Shit behaviour absolutely horrible but not rape and not criminal.
Dangerous to start labelling all behaviour we don't like a sexual abuse.
It undermines real abuse victims.
Empower women and girls to say NO if they don't want to and to take responsibility for our individual actions.

The girl gave consent to the boy and then regretted it when he dumped her after.

No. That’s not what the OP has described happening at all. The police do not think that either.

I hope your daughter is having a better day today than yesterday OP. 💐

Unfortunately it is EXACTLY whatvthe op described.

“scotsllib

“Why are you victimising anyone here, this is about 2 young teenagers not a grown man and woman.”

I should have explained the article was about the 18 and under so teenagers. Also, if you read ‘Everyone’s Invited’ which was based around the experiences of school children, there were so many instances of this sort of scenario.

*“The girl gave consent to the boy and then regretted it when he dumped her after.”

As I understood it, this is not what happened. The OP said her DD said “No” then just gave up saying no.

The young, interviewed man had said:

“Like sometimes you just keep going, just keep going till they just get fed up and let you do it anyway”.

In my opinion this was similar to what happened to OP’s DD.

Unfortunately it is EXACTLY whatvthe op described.

No This is what OP said,

To reiterate, he begged her for sex, wouldn't listen to her saying no. Then went ahead anyway, without her saying yes, or showing any willingness. This absolutely is a police matter.

No the police are involved due the op calling them over texts after the event.
He did not force himself on her as OP has said

Hi

DD did not give consent. Just to make that clear. She did not regret saying yes because he dumped her. That really didn't happen. So, please can people stop saying that.

Thanks.

He did not force himself on her as OP has said

We’re you in the room when this happened? No. So again, OP said

he begged her for sex, wouldn't listen to her saying no. Then went ahead anyway, without her saying yes, or showing any willingness. This absolutely is a police matter.

The police are dealing with this matter. So maybe you should leave them it.

The boy sounds like a shit but it doesn’t sound like an offence and nothing will happen to him. Sounds like the girl might be traumatised by the fact the mum phoned the police and now it’s a massive deal. She’s probably shitting herself about telling any kind of truth, poor thing.

@KaleSlayer

He did not force himself on her as OP has said

We’re you in the room when this happened? No. So again, OP said

he begged her for sex, wouldn't listen to her saying no. Then went ahead anyway, without her saying yes, or showing any willingness. This absolutely is a police matter.

The police are dealing with this matter. So maybe you should leave them it.

" I don't think I've said he forced himself on her and raped her. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still trying to process the information she is gradually giving me. When I made the initial report, I wasn't aware of some details. But, yes, you're right, I only reported it due to the nasty rumours.

I am leaving some details out, as I don't want to disclose all the information on a public forum.

I'm not forcing her to do anything. I will be guided by her. But surely my job as her mum and an adult is to try my best to ensure she makes the right decision for her, using guidance, conversations and discussions?

For what it's worth, I wouldn't like to see this boy charged with rape. I think a very strong word from the police on how his actions are wrong (both on the night and how he has acted subsequently) will suffice. He has a promising future ahead of him. I would never be responsible for ruining that unless I was 100% sure. "
These are the OPs words ok

scotsllb,

OP said this:
“Thanks to those that say she just had sex that she agreed too. The police think different, fortunately. She's too young to give consent and she was coerced. On further delving, she never actually said 'yes'. She just stopped saying no.”

“he begged her for sex, wouldn't listen to her saying no. Then went ahead anyway, without her saying yes, or showing any willingness. This absolutely is a police matter.”

The problem with involving the police is that you have no control over the investigation. You’re on a conveyor belt you can’t get off.

@cariadlet

Consensual sex involves enthusiastic consent. This wasn't given. Definitely coercive. Awful behaviour from the boy, especially to break up with the poor girl the next day.

Whether you're the mum of the girl or whether you're looking back on your own past, you have my every sympathy. That was shitty behaviour.

That’s not the law in the U.K.

Not sure if anyone will pick this up, but thought I would update, for those that were kind enough to offer advice and help.

DD agreed to do her video interview for the police. In this interview it finally came out, that as they were having sex (which she hasn't agreed to) she asked him to stop as it hurt. He said, it'll be because it's your first time, and just continued.

Further, it came to light that he had pestered her for nude pictures, which she sent. Foolishly, I know. Seems no matter how much you tell your teenagers not to do these things, it falls on deaf ears. Peer pressure is stronger, I guess.

We also received threats from this boys fringes, that put our lives in danger. He also spread very untrue rumours about DD, which led to her receiving a lot of abuse from her peers.

So, the police have been great. They arrested him, and seized his phone. He's been interviewed twice under caution. His friend that sent the worst threat has also been arrested and released on bail.

I also learned that there had been an issue with a previous girlfriend. I've spoken to her parents, who don't want to pursue matters. However, they did (at the time) contact his parents and threaten the police if he didn't stay away from their daughter. This in particular makes me so angry. His parents knew, but they let him into our lives and helped him with lifts etc. They let DD into their home and left them unsupervised. And they knew.

Sorry it's a bit of a ramble. Probably not in order! It's been an awful time. DD has only just gone back to school.

Given the latest statistics released on rape charges I doubt he'll be charged. But I will know that I have done my very best for DD.

*friends not fringes. Need to proofread!

Very sorry that happened to your DD. Glad the police are taking it seriously.