Was this anything other than consensual sex?

[fedupwithemployer]

Please help me with this. I keep turning it around in my head and have been unable to sleep all night. I'll keep it brief.

Boy 15
Girl 14

Boy pesters girl for sex. She says no. She is too young and wants to be in a more committed relationship. She's a virgin. Boy asks again, and again. Eventually girl has sex as she wants to stop the nagging, and doesn't want boy to break up with her. Never had a boyfriend. They've been seeing each other a month.

Boy splits up with her the next day.

Thanks.

She is under 16 so cannot consent

This isn’t correct I’m sorry, over 13 and children are deemed legally to be able to give consent for sex with a child their own age. This doesn’t mean it’s legal. Just they are deemed able to consent to sex as the law is not intended to prosecute this age group having consensual sex. This is why the police now need to investigate as the accusation is coercion which is an offence.

@Antiqueanniesmagiclanternshow

I feel so sorry for her but i have to ask....would you have gone to the police if he hadn't dumped her?

I think it is a horrible experience and a real learning point for her but i don't think it is something the police should be involved in.

This was my thought too.

Is she upset they had sex or is she upset he dumped her?

I don’t think this is a police matter.

@RunningFromInsanity

For the second time, we are not bothered that he dumped her. This all happened 3 weeks ago. He was trying to get back with her, telling her he loved her. He came ware her begging. She is not upset about that.

She told me what happened and still, even now, that he didn't do anything wrong. She didn't tell me to get him in trouble. She wants to stop any police action and for it all to go away.

To reiterate, he begged her for sex, wouldn't listen to her saying no. Then went ahead anyway, without her saying yes, or showing any willingness. This absolutely is a police matter. And fortunately they agree.

@Mykittensmittens
So sorry this happened to you. DD is extremely upset tonight. She's torn between thinking he hasn't done anything wrong, to wanting to kill him. I think I can see the penny dropping.

She wants stop police involvement, and for everything to just go back to normal.

@Regularsizedrudy

Too often we let things like this go and view it as a lesson learnt, all this does it leave him free to assault other girls and women as he gets older. It needs dealing with now, not swept under the rug.

This is exactly what the police said. This needs dealing with now, whilst he's still young. Whether they're able to prosecute or not, he needs to know his behaviour is wrong. She didn't want to have sex with him.

Sorry are you saying he raped your daughter by forcing himself on her and she didn't consent or she did consent but only because he was begging ? There is a huge difference
If your daughter doesn't want police involvement etc don't you think you should listen to her and respect that?
You said the boy dumped her but was then was then begging to get back with her?

@Bluntness100

I’m sorry op that she’s encountered this so young.

Legally when sex occurs between 13 and 15 they need to look at coercion. So the accusation always will drive a case to investigate. Although it’s illegal, over 13 children are deeme to be capable of consent with another child in the same age range, so they will need to speak to him and hear his side and also look at her decision making skills.

It’s likely this will be her word against his. Unless there is evidence he will likely say it eas her who wanted to have sex as he was thinking of dumping her anyway and he just went with it.

Unless there is something in the harassment he has been doing that would help the police?

What has he been saying about her?

I don't want to give too many details away. He's been saying he never liked her, didn't want to go out with her etc. Also, some worse things. It might be true, but if so, he's a very good liar. He had me convinced. He was extremely kind, nice, affectionate. Sending love messages, posting pictures of them together, all the usual stuff.

@scotsllb

Sorry are you saying he raped your daughter by forcing himself on her and she didn't consent or she did consent but only because he was begging ? There is a huge difference If your daughter doesn't want police involvement etc don't you think you should listen to her and respect that? You said the boy dumped her but was then was then begging to get back with her?

To be honest, I'm not really sure myself. She thinks that by not pushing him away or saying anything, she consented. But she never said, yes. She never showed any willingness.

And, yes, I am considering that. I'm giving her tonight to chill out. We haven't spoken about it much since this afternoon.

@fedupwithemployer

I hope your daughter is ok and I am so sorry for you. We are all holding your hand. Great you are their for daughter. She did a silly thing giving in the the pressure. Do Not let it define her as I don’t think it was her fault.

I am sure you won’t.

Thank you @Justa47

He's 15 not an adult. He is not a position of power or authority over her, how can it be coercion in the sense the law meant it to be?

He was out of order begging etc but girls and women need to use their voice . No means no and we say no unless you are scared for you life etc or reasons.

We must teach our daughters to say no when they mean no.

Your daughter sounds like she regrets what happened but also doesn't feel like she was assaulted so why are you insisting she was?

Rape is a very very serious accusation with life changing consequences.

This is not victim blaming at all but on the flip side you can't accuse a boy/ man of rape just because you decided after you wish you hadn't slept with them.
There is a measure of responsibility to be taken on both sides and as teens that's when you figure all this stuff out

@scotsllb thank you for your input. I will take your advice onboard.

Hi OP, I'm so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. I had a not dissimilar experience when I was 15, though I probably couldn't say it was rape - I consented after being badgered to have sex, albeit that I did so reluctantly. Then it felt like my whole year group was hearing horrible stuff he was making up. I remember at one point he persuaded me to get back together with him, then we had sex again and he dumped me by text on his way home - he told me he just wanted to prove that he could get me to do it again. I think I broke my Nokia 3310 throwing it against the wall!

Other than a bit of teenage acne I had no reason to lack confidence, and had loving and supportive family and friends who couldn't understand why I could let someone treat me like that in the first place, and then go back to him. Being a 14/15 year old is just bloody difficult and confusing and we often don't yet have the respect for ourselves that we should.

Anyway, I can see some have mentioned (and you are understandably concerned) about this impacting her future relationships and how she will expect to be treated by men. I just wanted to add a "glass half full" perspective - my next boyfriend (at 17) was wonderfully kind and loving and couldn't be nicer to me :) My bf from 18 - 21 was similarly very kind and loyal (and kinda dull tbh!). In hindsight that experience at 15 years old with the 16 year old prick did impact me, but it drove me towards men who treated me completely differently than he did, and I started understanding my worth and what to expect from relationships. My wonderful fiance sitting next to me now would die before treating a woman the way your daughter was treated.

Getting emosh and risking sounding smug, weirdly! Basically, I hope you can take some comfort from the fact that this horrible experience might help your DD grow into an even stronger woman, with great self-confidence and self-respect, demanding nothing less than what she deserves. All my best to you both!

@Lowkeyloopy
Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. It may have brought a tear to my eye.

I'm so happy you found your happy ending.

Thank you OP and likewise for pp @Lowkeyloopy just to reassure I was also with my subsequent BF for years and have carried no scars. I’d have a few choice words if I ever bumped into him though (which is unlikely due to locations). Fingers crossed this works out fine for you all

I think part of the issue is that for our generation this kind of thing happened and we didn’t even realise that it was wrong and we could do something about it.

I was 16, so above the age of consent, but I was coerced into foreplay by another boy in my year at a party. I was inexperienced and uncomfortable, and he was rough and forceful. The upshot is that I bit him. Allegedly. Not on purpose. I was tormented over that. Luckily it was already exam season so I wasn’t in school, but the taunting was brutal. I’ve never actually really spoken about it to anyone, I’ve just realised, as I type.

And it wasn’t the first time I was coerced, and it set up a lot of very unhealthy relationships, where I have been treated badly, and also at times behaved very badly. Even my marriage is probably built on this foundation, though over the years I have definitely found my voice, and I am much better at calmly standing my ground.

I think all you can do is stand by her, empower her to do what she wants to do. Show her that she is worth more than such terrible treatment. I am glad that we live in a world where adults care about this stuff (tbf - my dad would have killed the boy had he known, but the idea that school etc would support me was alien at that time).

@fedupwithemployer

Is she did not say yes. It’s rape. The end

Op. You basically said she had sex with him in your op so he wouldn’t dump her, and that you only reported due to the nasty rumours, and were asking if it was anything other than consensual based on this,,now you’re saying he forced himself on her and raped her?

Has your daughter actually told you that? Becayse op, and I mean this gently. If this was not the case you’ll do her more damage by going down this route than the boy did, because she will know if it’s true or not.

@Bluntness100 I don't think I've said he forced himself on her and raped her. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm still trying to process the information she is gradually giving me. When I made the initial report, I wasn't aware of some details. But, yes, you're right, I only reported it due to the nasty rumours.

I am leaving some details out, as I don't want to disclose all the information on a public forum.

I'm not forcing her to do anything. I will be guided by her. But surely my job as her mum and an adult is to try my best to ensure she makes the right decision for her, using guidance, conversations and discussions?

For what it's worth, I wouldn't like to see this boy charged with rape. I think a very strong word from the police on how his actions are wrong (both on the night and how he has acted subsequently) will suffice. He has a promising future ahead of him. I would never be responsible for ruining that unless I was 100% sure.

I'm really just trying to process this and help my child. I never, ever thought we would be in this position.

I agree with @scotsllb

14 year olds having sex is considered a safeguarding issue so I'd be prepared for social service involvement potentially, as you've involved the police. They may ask how it's come to be that parental decisions have been made that have allowed this to happen

I think you do more harm than good by involving the police - based solely on the info you have given, this isn't rape. However I'm only going by what you yourself have said here

I have a 14 year old boy and I've had a 14 year old girl (now in her 20s) and I'd be furious with myself for not keeping a closer eye on what she / he was up to, personally. She's 14, not 16 and still very young.

His behaviour was coercive and if, as a PP said, this is an offence, then he should be punished regardless.

This type of thing was very common at my school in the early 90s. It's really disheartening that this is still bloody going on. It's always the males pestering the females.

Your poor DD. It's good that she can come to you OP. Please encourage her to work on her self esteem and boundaries so that next time she will feel able to say no.

@TatteredHare well done on making me feel even more responsible than I already was.

We try to be the best parents we can. Our children come first in everything we do. We don't always get it right, but we'll never stop trying. This happened right under our noses, and I fail to see what we could have done differently to prevent it.

@alloutofcareunits

For those stating it's rape if under 16 that's not true. It's only statutory rape if she was under 13, other circumstances would need to apply if over 13.

This is also not true - statutory rape isn't a part of the British legal system. If a child under 13 has sex it is rape, not "statutory rape". Rape, plain and simple, because a child under 13 can't consent". Over 13 and rather than the American term statutory rape, it actually becomes "sex with a minor" - a lesser charge than rape, which anyone can be prosecuted for (including other teens of similar age). However, nuances in the law allow for their to be a judgment when the two young people are of similar age, as to whether it is in the public interest to prosecute or not. Generally if both parties say they truly consented then they won't prosecute. However, it sounds to me like OP's daughter did not "truly" consent, but did so under coercion.

Please don't bandy around the term "statutory rape" especially for under 13s. It massively belittles the crime, makes it sound lesser. If you have sex with a 12 year old it is "rape" - you are a rapist.

I'm Not trying to make you feel bad

But you are posting on a public forum where thousands of people can read and give their opinion and I've just expressed my thoughts

Thanks @TatteredHare I do appreciate that. I guess my feelings are just running high. I can't sleep, can't stop thinking about it. I already feel so responsible.