DD (15) can't keep her hands to herself

[Sarissima]

DD is 15 (16 in summer - Year 11).

I think this might take a lot of careful unscrambling, but am posting to see if anyone has any ideas which might help.

XH and I separated four years ago (due to his failure to curb his anger) and are now on amicable terms. DD and DS (17) come and go between our houses as they choose, at their request. I have got some major financial/job problems, but everything else is pretty stable now, and has been for some time.

About three years ago, though, DD started taking things from us both. Mostly trivial stuff - my decent anti-ageing cream (confused), shampoo, conditioner, chocolate. But also money (she took a very large amount from XH). And even when it's just trivial stuff, the cumulative effect is horrible (I go to get my hand cream - and it isn't there. I go to put my socks on - and they've gone. Etc). We have both spoken to her about it, repeatedly - to no avail. She simply goes into my room and helps herself to whatever she wants. Clothes, underwear (and we are four dress sizes apart) - you name it, she helps herself to it. I found one item of clothing in her bedroom, cut up (I was upset about this, as it was a present from my mum). I asked her why on earth she did it, and she said she tried it on and couldn't get it off again, so had to cut herself out of it.

I put a Yale lock on my bedroom door, but she found the key (she must have launched a sodding forensic search of the house) and had one cut for herself.

I feel as if my world is gradually shrinking as I daren't leave her in the house on her own. If I do, something is invariably missing when I get back. XH says the same. I bought something minor for DS the other day. She asked who it was for, and I said it was for him. When I went back in the kitchen, she had taken it.

I have absolutely no idea how to deal with this. I feel very cross with her. But I also feel very hurt, and frightened that she can't see why it's wrong to take things that belong to other people. She just laughs and shrugs and tells me to chill out. Is she right?

I have no idea if it's divorce-related, or if it's related in some way to her having had to suffer XH being an angry twunt for such a long time, or if I'm just being feeble (though she's always saying I'm too strict). She has a small allowance, because that's what I can afford to give her - though she is permanently angry with me about that, because all her friends have far more (this is true). That said, she is far more privileged than other people we know.

Has anyone else had this, and how did they deal with it?

Tit for tat. Great parenting advice.

I don't think you should retaliate, but I do think you should encourage counselling, consider speaking to your local Women's Aid for advice (they might be able to help with youth counsellors), and get some counselling for yourself to help you with dealing with your daughter.

I came from an abusive household and there have been issues with my brother, who refused to have his own counselling. My mum got counselling to help her with her feelings related to this and to help her deal with him . -- It's been very helpful in terms of their relationship.

I think you should work on strengthening your relationship with her while having clear and healthy boundaries, too. The stealing seems controlling, disrespectful and almost like a punishment for you. It speaks of issues in how she feels about you or how she thinks you feel about or engage with her. To then retaliate I would think would only produce further alienation and hurt. I think she knows it's painful for you and is not a failure in empathy, but more about her sense of entitlement and perhaps justifications arising from anger. Building emotional closeness might be more likely to let empathy and guilt rise to the surface above any self esteem issues, need to feel cleaver, or resentment she might feel towards you.

If she can't be trusted in the house she leaves when you do. You lock the door and she can return when you do.

Turfing an angry teen out on the street is unlikely to improve the relationship, nor will it encourage good behaviour. It’s pretty much handing them over to bad influence!

There is always someone willing to take in a troubled teenage girl and sadly, they don’t often have the girl’s best interests at heart. Grooming gangs actively sought out teen girls with difficult parental relationships, because they are vulnerable and easier to manipulate.

It's not tit for tat. If someone breaks something you own would you expect them to replace it?

She has deprived her mother of her property. She needs to make restitution.

Definitely don't do the same to her. It sounds like this is pathological it won't be solved by petty revenge seeking.

It's easy to get caught up in a negative feedback of getting angry at her behaviour, but you are the adult and you need to see beyond the behaviour and break the cycle.

For a start, don't use the word steal. Try borrowing instead, so that she has a chance of returning it and it's not as negative.

Do the same to her.

When people say this, it's not about restitution, is it?

Yea. Borrowing. Because she was totally going to return that cut up top.

She takes something of yours. Go and tell her she now owes you so replace it with something she treasures.

This is also not restitution.

She needs to make right what she did. She is not a child. She is criminally responsible.

Does she do this in school? In the shops?

Doubt it. Because she knows she's be accountable to someone who will actually punish her.

She's playing you.

@stilldoesntknowwhatshappening

Do you have teenagers?

No. But I have had to deal with the shit poor excuses for parenting after they leave mummy and daddy. And realise that not only will we not wipe their arse we will tell them when they'd work is shit and make them re do it and also sack them when we're fed up of picking up after them.

Ok, then...

Bloody hell you sound like you hate children @stilldoesntknowwhatshappening. Assuming OP doesn't hate her daughter her priority is going to be resolving the underlying issue causing her to behave this way not just putting an end to the symptom because it's irritating.

The behaviour is clearly pathological and irrational. She isn't taking things she wants because she's selfish, she's taking and even destroying things she can't possibly have any use for (wrong sized clothes). OP needs to get to the bottom of whatever is causing this, not just stop the behaviour.

Teenagers aren’t so different from toddlers really, both are going through major changes so rapidly it’s difficult to process them all without becoming frustrated and angry.
Yes, teenagers should theoretically know better but the brain isn’t properly developed yet and it’s being flooded with hormones. Add in a traumatic experience such as adult male anger and divorce and it’s not surprising that they sometimes behave like dickheads.

Parents are the adults and have to take the higher ground.
Retaliating with equally dickheady behaviour doesn’t work on toddlers and it doesn’t work on teenagers.
It’ll just make them hate you and you’ll never recover their respect in adulthood.

I think it reasonable she be expected to face consequences and to replace such items or pay for them in some way. Either through chores or with her own money, but not to do the same back to her.

I think rather than making her decide she should respect authority and not steal from her parents, it's more likely to increase any resentment. Which I think is likely to be a potential motive; resentment for not being protected and for being exposed to abuse, as well as consequences from it like having less than her friends. She could easily feel owed because of what she's been through, so it doesn't feel like she's stealing. She's getting her own back, finally feeling a bit of power, and taking her dues from her perspective, perhaps?

I love my mum, but I can understand also feeling resentful and angry about such things... an 'you didn't protect me so why shouldn't I get to take your things or use this body wash? Like it as bad or I owe you respect or care when I don't feel you've shown it to me.'

It's not right to respond that way, but I can understand an abused teen feeling that way.

Imagine being expected to actually discipline your children. Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

Locking a child outside isn’t ‘discipline‘. It’s abuse.

Not read full thread but my DD takes all my clothes , she's 14, brother is ASD. Married, we are similar size but its bizarre. Never takes money.

Imagine being expected to actually discipline your children.

You don't seem to know what discipline is. Clue: it's very different from what you are proposing.

@stilldoesntknowwhatshappening

I hope you don't work with children your attitude is quite horrible. The aim of parenting isn't to control your child for 18 years then let them loose on the world. You need to bring them up so that even when they're outside of your control they're decent, functioning people.

There is clearly some reason the DD is stealing and I would consider it vital to find out what that is - the DD might not even know herself. You could easily stop the DD from stealing by simply throwing her out of the house or by inventing a consequence so severe she's scared into complying. That wouldn't have resolved whatever's going on to make her steal though would it?

Sounds serious and needs action taking. Speak to school and GP re next steps.
Get new keys cut for bedrooms. I would stop her allowance. She has no consequences. Why do you allow them to come and go, surely they need routine even if its flexible?
How is your son coping with this?
My sister was like this, I had a key for my things but she would get a copy or find it. She was much older than me so not hard to outwit me! It started from when I was 8 til when she left home and was bloody awful.
By the way, this isn't your fault but you might need to he stricter I think - and her dad too of course.
Good luck.

It might give a false sense of hope and levity, as SF was both talented and lucky.

And from a wealthy family who doubtless paid back a lot of what he thieved, and kept everything under wraps so that he didn't have to fully face the consequences of his actions.

He is still a self-obsessed arse.

She's literally said why she's doing it.

She's punishing her parents because she thinks it's her right.

I'd be correcting that thinking.

@stilldoesntknowwhatshappening

The suggestions you've described are not going to correct that thinking. They're going to lead to further resentment and long term problems. Revenge is not good parenting.