DS14 punched gentle DH in chest/face multiple times. Now vanished.

[WaffleWiffle]

DS14 was being horrible to DS10 at xbox swap over time (ie DS10's turn came to an end and it was DS14's turn. This was 1pm today). DS14 was rude, taunting and generally horrible to his brother, in a way DS10 would not do if reversed.

DH went to talk to DS14 as this was happening. DS14 continued to be horrible. DH told DS14 to go to his room to calm down (Xbox is not in bedroom but is in family area upstairs), reflect and apologise before he could go on Xbox. They were standing outside of his bedroom but DS14 refused point-blank to go in.

Stand off continued. DS14's phone taken from him. Stand off continued along the lines of:

"You have lost 1h of xbox time, if you don't go in your room before I count to 5 you will lose 1h of phone time in addition.
(After count to 5)
You have lost 1h of phone & xbox, it becomes 2h if you don't go in your room before 5

Etc etc

Stand off continued and was getting nowhere so it reached the point where it was obvious this tactic was not working.

I want to add at this point that DH is the most non-confrontational person ever and is never, ever aggressive. He was calm and low-voiced throughout. But DS14 was becoming increasingly aggressive and 'squaring up' to get past DH and not go in his room. It became important to de-escalate quickly because DS14 was getting scary.

DH tried to march DS14 into his room by holding his two wrists and walking towards bedroom with him. This evidently was the wrong thing to do and we can reflect on this another day. But the result was DS pulling his arms away and throwing punches at DH.

Raining punches at DH's chest, this was the point I became involved (I was in the shower throughout all previous, could hear but knew DH is a capable parent. From this point onwards I am wrapped in a towel with wet hair...). I hear the cuffuffle and as I come out of the bathroom I see DS14 throw 2 punches at DH's face while DH tries and fails to get hold of DS's arms/hands to stop the attack.

Now in DS's room. DH holds DSs chest against the wall, which allows me to get hold of both of DSs wrists. We are trying to stop his violence and help him calm down. We are trying our best in a situation we've never known before. As you can imagine, this is a really, really stressful and dreadful situation to find ourselves in. DH and I wait maybe 90 seconds holding DS as he is throthing (literally) at the mouth to, well I don't know, attack us?

I continue to hold DSs wrists and tell DH to leave room. Then I swiftly follow, close door and tell DS he needs to CALM DOWN. DS punches (and damages) door and breaks his alarm clock (I don't know how, I was holding door closed).

DH, having caught his breath and had a few mins to check our other children are OK and not scared, is now furious. In explaining to me what happened he raises his voice for the first time (something DH very, rarely does - he's a quiet discussion kind of guy). This passes a strong message to DS, who knows how rarely DH loses his rag. DH spelled it out to me what DS had done (he physically punched me about 20 times! How I didn't retaliate , i don't know- he was battering me!) and that, a long with DHs tone of voice very quickly quietened DS behind his closed door.

I sent DH downstairs and out the way. DS silent. I opened door (mistake - I should have left him longer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing). DS is like a bull facing down a mattadore. In a very angry voice he says he want to get out.

I think he means of his room. I say no, must stay in room to calm down. He squares up to me, I think he's going to hit me . He says her not staying in here, her going and DH calls from downstairs that leaving the house might be a good idea. I agree since he's trashed his room and seems still very angry.

DS14 leaves the house. This is around 1.30-1 40pm today. DH throws his trainers out of the door as he leaves, because he's barefoot.

So that's where we are. DS has not come home. We've phoned our local family members in case he turns up at theirs and his best mates parents. He has no phone or money. Dinner is always 5.30pm

I'm starting to worry. How long should I leave him to brood before I go look for him?

Should I be out there now? Am I a bad parent for not? I feel ok to wait until usual dinner time (5.30) because that's his normal time to be in when he's out with friends. But don't know how long after that to wait? His night time curfue is 9-9.30pm in school hols, depending where he is. Should I wait until then?

I'm soooooo cross with him. Like big, big style angry for his behaviour to his Dad. But of course I'm also worried for his safety given I don't know where he is. I don't want my worry to lessen his consequences for physically assaulting another. But the worry is overtaking now. What if he's so sorrowful that he has... oh god. What if he's hurt?

What should I do???????

OP if you can track it down, there’s a great documentary ( BBC I think) called One Punch. Suggest you get your son to watch that. It shows how three lives were lost in the throwing of a single punch. It is very sobering and might just give your son as sense of the possible consequences of actions.

He wouldn't be seeing hide nor hair of that Xbox for a very long time if he was mine.

I would get rid of the Xbox completely

Getting rid of the Xbox isn't very fair on ds2, who hasn't done anything wrong. It also doesn't make particular sense IMO - the row could easily have been over something else.

I will show that one to my 3 sons ,MrsGrindah though we are through the worst of teen dramas now, BbC documentary One punch sounds poweruul and much needed viewing for young men.

I agree some consideration of xbox time is important ItalltOomuch but grandma's rule of moderation in all things and respecting others during gaming and taking turns and behaving respectfully, and calmly, is key here I feel. Learning when to walk away and how to recognise and deal with one's escalating anger is not really taught by confiscating xbox or technology. Maybe Ds should spend time helping his brother with games, and time doing xbox with his Dad , helping with dinner, and dishes, making sure his jobs are done before allowed on xbox

Hope things have improved OP.

This thread is frightening. Seriously. The assumptions and presumptions are astonishing. Assault? Of course it's not.

God forbid. You as a Jury would have had everyone in jail given half a chance.

I find this very disturbing.

The thing is with these teenagers.
They are growing up to be MEN.
The teenager that gets away with throwing punches at his dad because he’s frothing at the mouth in rage and can’t control his temper may easily become the man who punches his wife. He’ll be 18 in four years.

He wouldn’t see the x box for me either.
I’d have the incident discussed over the wider family Sunday dinner/ whatever, the whole thing out on the table so it wasn’t hidden away like some dirty family secret.
He needs to learn at least , that domestic violence mustn’t be a secret that goes on behind closed doors.
And then I’d have him out doing some work / exercising instead of sitting on his arse gaming all day.

We won't physically intervene ever again, you live and learn.

Counting as if he was a toddler, trying to force him to his room isn’t a strategy either. You are treating him like a baby.

I reminds me of an infant teacher I know who grabbed hold of a child to stop her running into the road. The parents tried to claim assault

Ridiculous to compare an infant to a teenager

What would you call it if a 14yo did this to you in the street? Or to your daughter?

OP, I feel your pain. I have a 16 year old DD with a very short fuse and a DH who is very placid, possibly Asperger's and scared of her. She is 6'3" and we took advice when she was about 8 from a health visitor about how to manage her rages. One of the most important things I try to remember is that doing anything whilst the rage is happening is pointless, other than making sure everyone is safe. I used to escalate the consequences to a point where she would have no screen time for weeks (!!!) but it is not fair whilst you're child is in an irrational rage to try and negotiate. I have 3 teens and nothing or no one could have prepared me for how hard it would be to be boundaried but giving enough independence. Loving but not letting them get away with bad behaviour etc. We have had occasions which I would have been utterly ashamed for anyone to witness how we managed, but we are all learning as we go along. I do find it useful, once my daughter is calm, and she often apologises at that point, to ask her if she was parenting herself what she would expect the consequences of her actions to be.

Glad he is safe OP, did he stay overnight with his friend?

You sound like you were both overtaken by the situation, a nice calm conversation with you, dh and ds, plus if he wants a friend / his sister for support.

The initial bit wasn’t that bad normal sibling stuff and probably didn’t deserve the reaction he got which is partly why this occurred - people react very badly when they feel they are being unfairly punished

So all of this was from him feeling it unfair and escalating, the punishment escalating until he completely lost it and lashed out.

You say this isn’t normal so can you see how this happened? I think your DH needs to understand that him angry and manhandling isn’t as soft and unthreatening as he would like to believe and your sons instincts kicked in

@Smilebehappy this is why we have a society of little shits

Who is raising these "little shits"? They don't raise themselves.

OP, I think you're doing great. There are many sanctimonious people on this thread who are very quick to point out what you did wrong with no words of encouragement or support. We all fuck up at times, every single one of us. This situation must have been horribly stressful and scary. The fact you and your dh are willing, even eager, to reflect on and improve on your parenting strategies shows you are both loving parents. What you said to your ds when he came home was perfect.

The documentary is a channel 4 one called ‘one killer punch’ the last one had me in floods of tears that lady is so strong.

It is an offence to assault someone. In young offenders facilities, youths are restrained for aggressive and violent behaviour as they become a danger to themselves or others.

It’s been suggested op dh walk away initially. If dh had, my guess is ds would have become aggressive with ds2!
There are some tragic circumstances in this world where just receiving one punch to the face has rendered the victim either disabled for life, or dead. In many of these occasions the attacker was a teenager.
I think the parents in this situation handled it well. Even in schools, if a pupil is throwing punches, teachers use peaceful restraint. Teachers don’t just walk away and ‘let aggressive behaviour’ just fizzle out.
Also, if a kid began punching a teacher or pupil, surely they’d be charged with assault and excluded? Certainly they would not be shown copious amounts of understanding.

I imagine your ds is feeling shocked at how the evening turned out. I would ask he himself to suggest an appropriate consequence and set a time where when things are calmer, talk through the situation from ‘both sides’. But the only message that should be prevalent here is that Violence is not going to be tolerated and in the event of it happening again, you will be sending your ds in an anger management course. One punch could actually ruin your ds life permanently and someone else’s.

It's not really relevant, but DS14 was cheering on DS10's opponent on FIFA
It's entirely relevant. He was aggressively bullying his bnrother. Then aggressively bullied his dad.
He needs massive consequences for this behaviour.
First I'd tell him as a united front - you and DH that if he ever hits anyone again you will call the police about assault. That is his final and only warning. Non negotiable.
Next, he must do some anger management.
He needs also to completely accept that he was bullying his brother viciously and getting pleasure from it. That this is revolting behaviour and he needs to make huisge amends. He could take his brothe rout for the day, on his own money, maybe missing a sport he normally does, with his brother choosing where they go and him being the responsible one, with check ins every hour or so to ensure that he is giving his brother the best day he;s ever had.
Or he could start a projetc with his brothe r- helping him build a go cart or a tree house or something - basically make him engage in a loving way that invoves a bit of self sacrifice. And explain this is because bullying is the most revolting behaviour in the world and the root of all the world's ills so he can stop it right now and show real remorse.

As to how he should repay his dad - I think something similar. About 100 hours of 'community service' is what he;d get if you;d pressed charges, so he can spend 100 hours clearing the garage, washing the car etc.

I am the sofest mum on earth. My DC get away with loads and loads of things other parents don;t tolerate, because meh - stuff doesn;t bother me and I like a pleasant quiet life. But I turn into a terrifying ogre at the first signs of bullying. It's non negotiable. It doesn't happen and if it does, they regret it big time.

Sorry for appalling typos.

I will say I’m a parent of small children not teenagers but is this really how people talk to 14 year olds? Counting to 5 etc? It sounds incredibly patronising and like the negotiation /disipline hasn’t really progressed from when they were small

We've had anger issues with my eldest step son
(his mum is very abusive, her response to EVERYTHING was threatening physical behaviour and this is what she "taught" him).

Within a year of living with us and having her influence out of picture we got his temper right down, and he very rarely "loses it" now, he gets angry but listens as well now.

However when he was bad, we've had the police come to our house and have a chat with him about what is acceptable etc.

I recommend having a chat with police and ask if someone can come to yours for a chat (this won't be on any record or anything, it's just a chat) it helped our ds a lot.

I also agree with a few pp, it's scary how some of you think! Yes he is a teenage but he is not an adult.

Teaching him that if he gets aggressive and physical, You will back down and give him what he wants to de-escalate is not a good idea.
All he will learn from that is, he is alpha in your house and you will lose all control over even the simplest of things, like him going to school, eating dinner not sweets etc, (maybe explains why our society is a scary one now, I don't think any of our parents/grand parents would have done this cuddle the villain and blame the victim stuff we do now a days)

He needs to learn that, that's not the way to behave, there are many strong men and tbf women out there that can do just that (be aggressive to get what they want) but this is not "adult" behaviour this is toddler behaviour, throwing tantrums to get own way.

The adult thing to do is give and take, just because you can (be aggressive to get what you want) doesn't mean you should.
This is what we teach our ds as we want the best future for him, we don't want him to be like his abusive mother, we don't want him in gangs or anything like that.

This needs sorting.

Talk to police ask them to come round for an informal chat with your son.

Good luck x

Yes additionally, 14 y old Ds does need to be aware zero tolerance of Domestic violence and bullying 10 year old Ds , so yes let him know that if anyone is ever threatening to cause physical harm or violent , police will be contacted as it is a right for all to feel safe in their own home, agree with ozziewozzle & milliefiore

While at the same time teaching Ds angsr management strategies to remain calm when hia anger escalates, to know when to walk away to defuse and talk later after at least an hour of calm Anger management course sounds a good idea in theory but i wouldnt be wanting my Ds to mixwith others with violent tendencies,as it is a one off incident and would hope for it to be 'nipped in the bud ' perhaps with counselling for anger mgt strategies. What are his friends like?

I really like @Notaclue26's idea of asking the police to come for a chat with him. They can help him see the consequences of this behaviour if it escalates. And I am massively impressed that the police will do this sort of early intervention as a deterrent.

I have small children, not teens. So I am hugely lacking in direct experience here..but I just wanted to say, OP you and your husband sound like completely normal, loving, compassionate and considered parents. I would have been totally shocked and unsure how to deal with that situation too.
Some of he responses on this thread are so fucking arrogant and self-righteous, really digging the boot in because you were understandably caught off guard and reactive!
I think removing the x-box for a fixed period is a good idea. Good luck!