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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Ungrateful teens, but with added complication

139 replies

avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:10

Dd's are 17 and 15. I can honestly say that I do everything I can for them, while having tried not to spoil them. So they want for nothing materially, but they haven't got the latest or most expensive stuff. They don't have to do a lot around the house, but are expected to help here and there. If they want to go out, I will always try to facilitate this, but they don't have too much on. We have been on many holidays but nothing too fancy. Every school trip they wanted to go on they've been allowed to go on.
They have a younger brother who is 12 and is both physically disabled and on the spectrum. This means there are things we cannot do as a family, and his moods can affect the family dynamic. Again I have tried to mitigate this by whenever I could doing things with the dd's alone, or dh doing the same. I do ask them to help out with ds, but not on a regular basis at all and only eg "babysitting" him when they'd be home anyway.
Recently with the dd's growing up they have not spent as much time with ds as before and while I accept that to some extent as normal I have tried to say to the dd's that they should maybe make more of an effort with ds than they would with a "normal" sibling because his world is small, he doesn't have any friends and he loves them very much. We have now fallen out because they have again made it clear how much they resent me making them feel guilty when I say they should sometimes spend time ds, and how little effort I make to understand how hard it is for them to have a sibling like ds. For the first point - it annoys me because that is one of the only demands I ever make on them, for the second point it upsets me because I just don't get what hardship they are suffering. There has not been a single instant ever when ds has stopped them from doing anything they wanted. But still they say they have it uniquely tough. When I point out what other families have to endure they say it's unfair to make that comparison.
Tonight I lost my rag and told them to "check their privilege" and to finally appreciate how lucky they are, but then just stormed out. I am not getting the vibe that they are taking this on board in any way.
Where do I go from here - have I spoilt them after all or do I need to be more understanding?

OP posts:
Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:13

Just to add - ds's physical disability is very mild and there is no physical care involved for the dd's when they are with him apart from maybe help with putting socks on.

OP posts:
BatFacedOK · 27/10/2018 23:14

They sound normal to me. My 20 year old DD would be furious if I tried to make her spend time with her 12 year old brother. How boring!

You sound a lot of time setting the scene here, taking great pains to explain how they don't have more than what you feel they need. I wonder why?

Your DD being disabled is a red herring here in terms of what you're explaining. Just let your daughters crack in with what they want to do and don't they and force them to spend time with their brother would be my advice

Dljlr · 27/10/2018 23:15

I don't have an SN sibling, and perhaps the perspectives of those who do would be more helpful to you. But I think your daughters sound incredibly selfish and unkind. That doesn't mean that that's their character necessarily though; perhaps this is more symptomatic of their ages than who they really are, and once they've come out of the selfish teen stage they'll be completely different towards their brother. But I don't think you're wrong to keep pointing out to them that it's not nice behaviour, because it's not.

BatFacedOK · 27/10/2018 23:16

Is there any way you can extend his friendship group at all? I think that would be nice beneficial to him.. playing with kids his own age? What are his interests for example

Endofthelinefinally · 27/10/2018 23:16

They sound thoughtless and self absorbed.
I am sorry OP. It is awful to discover this about your own dc.
I don't know what to suggest.
Flowers

Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:17

The point of me settling the scene is that I wonder whether I'm unreasonable to expect them give something back to the family in the form of spending time with ds. His disability is not a red herring because if he wasn't he would have more of a life of his own.

OP posts:
Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:19

He does go to a youth group but that's just 2 hours a week.

OP posts:
Endofthelinefinally · 27/10/2018 23:20

My late ds had mental health problems and faced many difficulties. But when his younger sister was injured and off school for nearly six months he couldn't do enough for her. He did everything he could to help. Because he loved her.
Kindness costs little.

BatFacedOK · 27/10/2018 23:20

I feel for you but my opinion (which you asked for!) remains the same. Yes , they should be pulled up on bad behaviour and yes they should certainly be helping you and him out where needed. But no, you can't force them to willingly spend social time with him so I'd be exploring other avenues for now. It's selfish behaviour but it's normal

Shockers · 27/10/2018 23:22

Put your efforts into finding things for him to do. Is he entitled to direct payments for a carer to accompany him?

Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:24

BatFaced I'm grateful for every opinion but I would like to ask you - does that extend to any sort of help, so don't force them to load the dishwasher for example, or do you mean specifically the spending time with ds thing? Because I would 100 % rather they spend time with ds than do housework because it means a lot to him and it gives me a mental break.

OP posts:
PickAChew · 27/10/2018 23:25

They are finding their way in the world as their own individual selves. They are not your built in, unpaid, childminders.

I have 2 kids with neuro disabilities and no other siblings to make their worlds bigger for them. If they did, it wouldn't be fair on them to expect them to let me treat them as child minders without complaint.

Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:27

PickaChew, again the question there - is it ok to demand of your teen children to help with chores - if so, then why not this chore when this is the one that helps the family the most?

OP posts:
crocsaretoocoolforschool · 27/10/2018 23:28

I have a sister with a disability and I also have 2 teenagers, one of which has autism

At the time it's incredibly difficult to have a disabled sibling as you perceive things differently -1 appointment for your sibling can mean it feels like they are taking all your parent's time, 1 meltdown that is responded to with care and compassion rather than a telling off can feel incredibly unfair, taking your sibling's needs into account when it comes to impromptu gatherings with friends, days out etc, having to babysit for a 12 year old when you are 15 and most of your friends with 12 year old siblings don't have to give them a 2nd thought
-all these things can feel incredibly unfair and your older dc have nothing to compare this to, it's their normal

They will also see you worrying about things like schooling, doctors appointments, surgery etc and will be much more involved with this than siblings with no additional needs -whether this is intentional or not

Retrospectively you grow up and realise that all families have different dynamics and your parents tried their best to do right by you all

Teenagers are by nature and design self-absorbed

in the nicest possible way cut them some slack

Dowdydoes · 27/10/2018 23:28

I think your expectations are fine and if I had a 20yr kid who couldn’t do some kind acts for her 12yr old brother because it would be boring I would be fairly horrified. Empathy, patience and tolerance are all great qualities - I would emphasize my love for them all and my expectations. They would be the same as yours.

Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:30

Crocs, I appreciate what you are saying, but the point of my lengthy scene setting was to explain that I think I cut them a LOT of slack

OP posts:
PickAChew · 27/10/2018 23:32

Washing the dishes or making their beds has a defined start and end point. Spending more time with little brother feels a lot more indefinite. Particularly if the premise is to give you a break.

Endofthelinefinally · 27/10/2018 23:32

I disagree that they should not be expected to spend time with their brother. Surely families should look out for and care about each other?
There is so much selfishness and entitled behaviour around - much of it described and moaned about on MN. I don't think OP is unreasonable at all.
She isn't expecting her daughters to scrub floors or do all the cooking.
She is just asking them to spend a little bit of time with their brother. I honestly don't think that is much to ask.

BatFacedOK · 27/10/2018 23:33

I have a 20 year old and a 12 year old. The age difference is almost irrelevant - yes she's an adult (and away at uni ) but honestly it's a sibling thing. Sometimes they roll about on the floor shouting at each other. And she's perfectly nice and sensible

You want them to willingly choose to spend time with him. They don't want to. The more you try and force this, the more you'll push them the other way. Yes I'd enforce chores and yes I'd enforce tasks that involve him. But you want them to actively choose to entertain him and I can understand why they don't want to do that

crocsaretoocoolforschool · 27/10/2018 23:34

OP you asked in your original post if you should be more understanding

I think you should, you clearly don't -so why ask the question?

Singlenotsingle · 27/10/2018 23:35

It's hard to know what to suggest tbh OP. Hopefully it's opened their eyes a bit, to see you so upset over it. I'm afraid I'd be saying if they can't put themselves out occasionally to do something nice for someone else (you AND ds), I can't be bothered to put myself out to do anything for them. They need to learn that life is give and take, not take and take.

It's so easy to spoil kids without meaning to, and you seem to have ended up with a pair of entitled snowflakes. It needs sorting out.

EllenJanesthickerknickers · 27/10/2018 23:36

I have 3 DSs, the middle one has ASD. I'm also now divorced. I can't say it hasn't affected the lives of my other 2 DSs, it has. Family holidays and day trips have always centred around what DS2 can cope with. DS1 and 3 have been on trips with their friends through school and scouts etc but they do resent DS2. And like your DS, he doesn't have any friends of his own (nor any desire to have any) so time and experiences with his family are all he has outside college.

I would like my NT DSs to consider DS2 occasionally but they really don't want to. DS3 is the worst but has been closer to DS2 as he's younger so the gap between them seems less.

I don't really have advice. I hear about these amazing siblings of DC with SN who go into caring professions and gave so much empathy but maybe all 3 DSs are lacking in that respect.

Unfortunately you can't make them want to spend time with him and it's not their job to be his friends. They are his siblings and beyond a standard relationship they shouldn't be expected to provide any more. Just be glad they were around when he was younger. Hopefully they'll want to keep an eye on him when they're all older but I wouldn't expect them to be his carers. Flowers

Original poster
avenueq · 27/10/2018 23:37

Sorry crocs I do appreciate opinions, I was just wondering if you'd not agree that I cut them a lot of slack already

I don't expect them to choose to spend time with ds, I expect them to do it for me out of gratitude for all they have and out of a sense of care and kindness

OP posts:
EllenJanesthickerknickers · 27/10/2018 23:38

My DSs are 16,19 and 21 btw.

Endofthelinefinally · 27/10/2018 23:39

I think you need to start now to think about how you are going to get things in place for the future. You will not be able to care for ds indefinitely.
You need to look into what will happen when your own health and earning capacity declines.

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